Are the "S" cars really worth the extra money?
12-23-2002, 06:29 PM
#31
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Thread Starter
I'm weakening and leaning towards the "S". It's going to cost $10K more but there's something about the look of the "s" that draws me. The funny part about this is that I have never seen or driven one (an "S" model that is)! What is about these cars that makes me so stupid with my money!?!
12-23-2002, 07:12 PM
#32
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[quote]So, according to these figures, the rarest coupe for US/Canada would be the '98 C4S, followed by the '97 C2S, no?<hr></blockquote>
Nope, you would be wrong there. The rarest 993 NA coupe is actually the 1996 C4, where 105 were sold in the US.
It was a real pain to find a used narrow-body C4 with Varioram in the color I wanted...
Brett
Nope, you would be wrong there. The rarest 993 NA coupe is actually the 1996 C4, where 105 were sold in the US.
It was a real pain to find a used narrow-body C4 with Varioram in the color I wanted...
Brett
12-23-2002, 07:18 PM
#33
[quote]Originally posted by Rob 97 993c2:
<strong>
Astethics: Unlike past 911s or the 996, the 993c2 still has a rear bulge and looks great (the rear difference is hardly noticeable, unless u go are trying to look for it). Given how short these cars are, the widebody looks a little awkward, especially w/o a tail. And if you want a tail, then you probably want it to look like a turbo, so just go buy a turbo and have fun.
=r</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I prefer the S cars without the aerokit. I think the tail looks OK, but at the same time takes away from the purity of line that the car has. I personally could own the car either way but I wouldn't pay a dollar extra for the tail.
To each his own,
<strong>
Astethics: Unlike past 911s or the 996, the 993c2 still has a rear bulge and looks great (the rear difference is hardly noticeable, unless u go are trying to look for it). Given how short these cars are, the widebody looks a little awkward, especially w/o a tail. And if you want a tail, then you probably want it to look like a turbo, so just go buy a turbo and have fun.
=r</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I prefer the S cars without the aerokit. I think the tail looks OK, but at the same time takes away from the purity of line that the car has. I personally could own the car either way but I wouldn't pay a dollar extra for the tail.
To each his own,
12-23-2002, 07:21 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Okay...I'm confused. The narrow body cars are more rare? I know of a 1996 C4 with 31K miles that can had at a good price. I could chase it, but, I like the butt of the "S".
Also, I've seen varying opinions. Has anyone actually compared an S versus it's regular counterpart (C2 vs. C2S and C4 vs. C4S) on a performance and feature basis to determine which one would actually outperform the other? I would use whatever car I buy as a daily driver but I do have aspirations of actually trying a drivers school. Would they both suit me equally or would an "S" provide bragging rights?
I'm not sure I really understand the differences other than appearance. I thought ALL the "S" cars have M030, bigger brakes, etc.?
Also, I've seen varying opinions. Has anyone actually compared an S versus it's regular counterpart (C2 vs. C2S and C4 vs. C4S) on a performance and feature basis to determine which one would actually outperform the other? I would use whatever car I buy as a daily driver but I do have aspirations of actually trying a drivers school. Would they both suit me equally or would an "S" provide bragging rights?
I'm not sure I really understand the differences other than appearance. I thought ALL the "S" cars have M030, bigger brakes, etc.?
12-23-2002, 07:36 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
[quote]Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>
I would be surprised if the older Turbo-Look cars from the 80's don't demand a fairly substancial premium over the regular Carrera.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They do carry a premium, from 20-50%. However consider that the early turbo-looks were rare and actually had turbo suspension, brakes and bodywork.
It remains to be seen if the Carrera S enjoys the same market appeal as the mid-eighties turbo-look. See you in twenty years to find out!
<strong>
I would be surprised if the older Turbo-Look cars from the 80's don't demand a fairly substancial premium over the regular Carrera.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They do carry a premium, from 20-50%. However consider that the early turbo-looks were rare and actually had turbo suspension, brakes and bodywork.
It remains to be seen if the Carrera S enjoys the same market appeal as the mid-eighties turbo-look. See you in twenty years to find out!
12-24-2002, 12:26 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Bill, old boy, if you're that diverted by the J-Lo of 993's, then get one at once. Life's too short. I started going down that path until my inner geek reminded me that it's no faster than the equivalent narrow body ( and I couldn't find the right one either ). Ended up with a "rare" '96 C4 only because it had a great documentation and a PO who cared. Like Terry, I couldn't bear to just gaze at it sitting in my garage. It begs to be driven, and from that position who cares about an extra 40mm or so of fender? ( unless you want to squeeze some 11" wide rims in ). Happy hunting
12-24-2002, 05:34 AM
#40
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Bill - to be honest, I wasn't looking for a C2S; I just spent a year looking for the best, cleanest, most honest 993 I could find. Just so happened that this one was a C2S. My only criteria was that it had to be 1997/8 car as I wanted the last of the breed.
Having said that, over here in the UK, a lot has been said in the press about the vagueness of the C4S regarding steering and handling. I cant comment myself as I've never driven one (before any shouts 'Flame On!!') but in all honesty you get one or you see one and you just want one - you dont go "Oh, thats not a J-Lo..."
Can you see what I'm getting at here??
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Merry Christmas!
Having said that, over here in the UK, a lot has been said in the press about the vagueness of the C4S regarding steering and handling. I cant comment myself as I've never driven one (before any shouts 'Flame On!!') but in all honesty you get one or you see one and you just want one - you dont go "Oh, thats not a J-Lo..."
Can you see what I'm getting at here??
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Merry Christmas!
12-24-2002, 07:33 AM
#41
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[quote]Originally posted by billh1963:
<strong>Has anyone actually compared an S versus it's regular counterpart (C2 vs. C2S and C4 vs. C4S) on a performance and feature basis to determine which one would actually outperform the other? </strong><hr></blockquote>
In fact the "S" cars have less performance from the weight penalty and extra aerodynamic drag caused by the wide butt. A C4 is quicker off the line compared to a C2, but the C2 catch up after a bit and is ultmately quicker in a straight line.
[quote]Originally posted by billh1963:
<strong> I thought ALL the "S" cars have M030, bigger brakes, etc.?</strong><hr></blockquote>
M030 was available as an option on any 993 and come time to replace worn shocks (and it will come) can be retrofitted for relatively small money. Big brakes came standard on the C4S only, not on the C2S. Read the achives and you'll find the performance advantage is in less brake fade on sustained hard track driving.
Still confused? take a 993, ANY 993!, for a drive and it will put a smile on your face
.
IMHO The one question that needs answering is: what do YOU want, and how bad do you want it? I started shopping for a late 3.2 and look what I've got... You haven't even touched upon the differences in actually driving a C2 vs. a C4 (S or not). Meanwhile, have fun making your mind up.
Enjoy <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Nol
"you can't get what you want until you know what you want" Joe Jackson
<strong>Has anyone actually compared an S versus it's regular counterpart (C2 vs. C2S and C4 vs. C4S) on a performance and feature basis to determine which one would actually outperform the other? </strong><hr></blockquote>
In fact the "S" cars have less performance from the weight penalty and extra aerodynamic drag caused by the wide butt. A C4 is quicker off the line compared to a C2, but the C2 catch up after a bit and is ultmately quicker in a straight line.
[quote]Originally posted by billh1963:
<strong> I thought ALL the "S" cars have M030, bigger brakes, etc.?</strong><hr></blockquote>
M030 was available as an option on any 993 and come time to replace worn shocks (and it will come) can be retrofitted for relatively small money. Big brakes came standard on the C4S only, not on the C2S. Read the achives and you'll find the performance advantage is in less brake fade on sustained hard track driving.
Still confused? take a 993, ANY 993!, for a drive and it will put a smile on your face
. IMHO The one question that needs answering is: what do YOU want, and how bad do you want it? I started shopping for a late 3.2 and look what I've got... You haven't even touched upon the differences in actually driving a C2 vs. a C4 (S or not). Meanwhile, have fun making your mind up.
Enjoy <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Nol
"you can't get what you want until you know what you want" Joe Jackson
12-24-2002, 11:06 AM
#42
Three Wheelin'
billh1963
Buy whichever you like after you look at them and drive them. Keep in mind though, that the C2S does not have the big red brakes, though I think the standard 993 brakes are wonderful.
FWIW, except for the small difference in power/torque for Varioram vs non-Varioram, all non-turbo 993s have the same engine, and the C4S is the heaviest. The C2S is heavier than the C2. I have read several articles that state that the standard Carrera handles better than the C2S -- better balanced, less understeer, more adjustable. I can't provide a link because I'm just recalling this off the top of my head, but Car and Driver did a best-handling car comparison in '97 or '98. If I remember correctly, the C2S was rated higher than the Boxster (to the surprise of many), but they said that a standard Carrera would have done better than the S. There is also an article in the Brooklands Books collections of old road tests that says the Carrera is a better drive than the S.
These points may or may not be significant enough for you if you like the S body. Personally, I like the looks of all 993s, so I went for the lightest and, IMO, most pure of them -- the standard Carrera Coupe.
Buy the one that makes you want it most.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Buy whichever you like after you look at them and drive them. Keep in mind though, that the C2S does not have the big red brakes, though I think the standard 993 brakes are wonderful.
FWIW, except for the small difference in power/torque for Varioram vs non-Varioram, all non-turbo 993s have the same engine, and the C4S is the heaviest. The C2S is heavier than the C2. I have read several articles that state that the standard Carrera handles better than the C2S -- better balanced, less understeer, more adjustable. I can't provide a link because I'm just recalling this off the top of my head, but Car and Driver did a best-handling car comparison in '97 or '98. If I remember correctly, the C2S was rated higher than the Boxster (to the surprise of many), but they said that a standard Carrera would have done better than the S. There is also an article in the Brooklands Books collections of old road tests that says the Carrera is a better drive than the S.
These points may or may not be significant enough for you if you like the S body. Personally, I like the looks of all 993s, so I went for the lightest and, IMO, most pure of them -- the standard Carrera Coupe.
Buy the one that makes you want it most.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
12-24-2002, 11:44 AM
#43
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[quote]Originally posted by Brett-1996 C4:
<strong>
Nope, you would be wrong there. The rarest 993 NA coupe is actually the 1996 C4, where 105 were sold in the US.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
2 accounted for in these two posts....
<strong>
Nope, you would be wrong there. The rarest 993 NA coupe is actually the 1996 C4, where 105 were sold in the US.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
2 accounted for in these two posts....
12-25-2002, 12:51 PM
#44
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I like the big butt as well. Here is a few pictures of mine. I think somebody coined the term "organic" in terms of looking at it.
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/android356/Porsche/PhotoAlbum4.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/android356/Porsche/PhotoAlbum4.html</a>
Not for sale anymore, I decided to keep it after all. I was having withdrawls without even giving it up.
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/android356/Porsche/PhotoAlbum4.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/android356/Porsche/PhotoAlbum4.html</a>
Not for sale anymore, I decided to keep it after all. I was having withdrawls without even giving it up.
