Extra oilcooler - in series or parallell?
#3
I was told by one Porsche tuner that if I don't put them parallell the pressure can drop. Anyway, it does make sense, to me anyway, to put them parallell. As far as I can figure this out. If in parallell the oil will get the same cooling time but the force needed to press it through the coolers will be half as much. Correct!?
Just wanted your thoughts on this before I decide.
/Erik
Just wanted your thoughts on this before I decide.
/Erik
#4
An uneducated opinion, admittedly, but let me try...
You basically would have a tradeoff to balance, I think...you want greatest overall delta in temp, and you want lowest possible resistance.'
If in series, I believe you'd get the lower temp output, but you might experience more resistance, either resulting in more strain, or less overall throughput.
If in parallel, you would experience lower resistance, but the output temps might not change (maybe even get worse if the second cooler is of a lower capacity than the primary).
I'm not familiar with how the oil pressure is generated (I believe the term 'dry sump' is relevant, but I need an education here) so I'm not sure if resistance is all that critical a consideration.
You basically would have a tradeoff to balance, I think...you want greatest overall delta in temp, and you want lowest possible resistance.'
If in series, I believe you'd get the lower temp output, but you might experience more resistance, either resulting in more strain, or less overall throughput.
If in parallel, you would experience lower resistance, but the output temps might not change (maybe even get worse if the second cooler is of a lower capacity than the primary).
I'm not familiar with how the oil pressure is generated (I believe the term 'dry sump' is relevant, but I need an education here) so I'm not sure if resistance is all that critical a consideration.
#5
1. Delta t is directly related to the time the oils stays in the cooler, right?
2. Adding a extra oilcooler in parallell, everything else equal, would mean that the oil would spend twice the time in the cooler(s).
Example - I pour 1 bucket of oil into 1 cooler and get it back in one second. I can pour 2 buckets trough 2 coolers in the same time. Wouldn't this mean that the oil could spend twice the time in the cooler(s) with the same flow/pressure?
/Erik
2. Adding a extra oilcooler in parallell, everything else equal, would mean that the oil would spend twice the time in the cooler(s).
Example - I pour 1 bucket of oil into 1 cooler and get it back in one second. I can pour 2 buckets trough 2 coolers in the same time. Wouldn't this mean that the oil could spend twice the time in the cooler(s) with the same flow/pressure?
/Erik
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Eric,
Maybe I have my terms wrong (series and parallel) but here is how I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the 993 GT2 race car the oil running to the front would have a split right before the front fender. One line would go to the left cooler, one to the right and then return. I called this parallel.
My car, and all the other street 993's (that I have seen) with dual coolers. The line goes into the first cooler and then out and over to the second cooler and then back to the tank or where ever. I called this in series.
Maybe I have my terms wrong (series and parallel) but here is how I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the 993 GT2 race car the oil running to the front would have a split right before the front fender. One line would go to the left cooler, one to the right and then return. I called this parallel.
My car, and all the other street 993's (that I have seen) with dual coolers. The line goes into the first cooler and then out and over to the second cooler and then back to the tank or where ever. I called this in series.
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#8
Originally posted by Jeff 993TT
Seems like getting the proper air flow would probably be more important than if the coolers were in parallel or serial.
Seems like getting the proper air flow would probably be more important than if the coolers were in parallel or serial.
Btw. I found out that Porsche motorsport is selling a kit which contains a oilcooler (exactly the same as the stock) with hoses and mounting brackets for around $1000. Sounds like a bargin compared to the small turbo S aux cooler. Anybody who installed this?
/Erik
#9
Originally posted by Greg Fishman
Eric,
Maybe I have my terms wrong (series and parallel) but here is how I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the 993 GT2 race car the oil running to the front would have a split right before the front fender. One line would go to the left cooler, one to the right and then return. I called this parallel.
Eric,
Maybe I have my terms wrong (series and parallel) but here is how I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the 993 GT2 race car the oil running to the front would have a split right before the front fender. One line would go to the left cooler, one to the right and then return. I called this parallel.
Originally posted by Greg Fishman
My car, and all the other street 993's (that I have seen) with dual coolers. The line goes into the first cooler and then out and over to the second cooler and then back to the tank or where ever. I called this in series.
My car, and all the other street 993's (that I have seen) with dual coolers. The line goes into the first cooler and then out and over to the second cooler and then back to the tank or where ever. I called this in series.
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"Not quite sure what you mean. "In parallell" would mean that the first cooler is connected exactly as stock but from those two connections there should be two hoses that goes to the next cooler. Right side hose to right side on the next cooler, left side to left side. Think of a step ladder where the steps are the coolers and the sides (what the steps connects to) are the hoses. Was this what you meant?"
I see what you are saying and I have not seen a cooler set up like that. I got mine from PMNA and it is in series as I described above. BTW it requires you to remove the AC condensor.
The 993GT2 race car I was referring to had half of the oil going to one cooler, and half to the other. Then it returns. The oil does not travel from cooler to cooler directly.
Not sure what the ramifications would be as you describe it with the "step ladder effect" but be aware that these coolers have a definte inlet and out let. I would be afraid the oil as you described would not circlulate as well as the other methods since the hot oil might not spend enough time in the cooler while to cool oil never leaves the cooler. I am not an engineer but I would suggest to stay with the factory kit and directions. Rarely are they wrong about these things.
I see what you are saying and I have not seen a cooler set up like that. I got mine from PMNA and it is in series as I described above. BTW it requires you to remove the AC condensor.
The 993GT2 race car I was referring to had half of the oil going to one cooler, and half to the other. Then it returns. The oil does not travel from cooler to cooler directly.
Not sure what the ramifications would be as you describe it with the "step ladder effect" but be aware that these coolers have a definte inlet and out let. I would be afraid the oil as you described would not circlulate as well as the other methods since the hot oil might not spend enough time in the cooler while to cool oil never leaves the cooler. I am not an engineer but I would suggest to stay with the factory kit and directions. Rarely are they wrong about these things.
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Or are you talking about the piggy back oil cooler solution on the same side as the existing one?
I agree with Greg, the separate oil coolers are in series not parallel (how ever you define that) and the piggy back cooler concept is also in series.
I agree with Greg, the separate oil coolers are in series not parallel (how ever you define that) and the piggy back cooler concept is also in series.
#13
Originally posted by Greg Fishman
[BThe 993GT2 race car I was referring to had half of the oil going to one cooler, and half to the other. Then it returns. The oil does not travel from cooler to cooler directly.[/B]
[BThe 993GT2 race car I was referring to had half of the oil going to one cooler, and half to the other. Then it returns. The oil does not travel from cooler to cooler directly.[/B]
Originally posted by Greg Fishman
Not sure what the ramifications would be as you describe it with the "step ladder effect" but be aware that these coolers have a definte inlet and out let. I would be afraid the oil as you described would not circlulate as well as the other methods since the hot oil might not spend enough time in the cooler while to cool oil never leaves the cooler. I am not an engineer but I would suggest to stay with the factory kit and directions. Rarely are they wrong about these things.
Not sure what the ramifications would be as you describe it with the "step ladder effect" but be aware that these coolers have a definte inlet and out let. I would be afraid the oil as you described would not circlulate as well as the other methods since the hot oil might not spend enough time in the cooler while to cool oil never leaves the cooler. I am not an engineer but I would suggest to stay with the factory kit and directions. Rarely are they wrong about these things.
Whether you connect it in parallell or in series the oil have to go trough the coolers. As far as I can tell, there's no possibilities that "the hot oil might not spend enough time in the cooler while to cool oil never leaves the cooler"
The oil has to circulate. Otherwise there must be some problems with the pump.
#14
Originally posted by kary993
Or are you talking about the piggy back oil cooler solution on the same side as the existing one?
I agree with Greg, the separate oil coolers are in series not parallel (how ever you define that) and the piggy back cooler concept is also in series.
Or are you talking about the piggy back oil cooler solution on the same side as the existing one?
I agree with Greg, the separate oil coolers are in series not parallel (how ever you define that) and the piggy back cooler concept is also in series.
The whole concept of "piggy back" is parallell connection though this might not be the case with the "piggy back cooler"
/Erik
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Originally posted by 993tt
Hmmm... why would they bother to connect it in parallell in the 993 GT2 but not in the cup car? Sound strange since there should be a difference between the two ways. One have to be better. I can't see why one way would be better in one car and the other in an other...
Hmmm... why would they bother to connect it in parallell in the 993 GT2 but not in the cup car? Sound strange since there should be a difference between the two ways. One have to be better. I can't see why one way would be better in one car and the other in an other...
The 993 Cup is no where near as stressed of an engine and very close in hp to what some hopped up street 993's could see.
I think the answer to our other question would be better discussed over a beer and with some paper and pencil to draw some diagrams. I have a feeling that what I am thinking is much different than what you are.