C2S- What happened?!?!?!??!
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C2S- What happened?!?!?!??!
OK, just test drove a 1998 C2S. Blk/cashmere, titanium package, 18" Turbo wheels with 285's in the back, 60K miles, full leather, new brakes, clutch, oil change, etc and I was very VERY disappointed! The clutch felt spongy like my Toyota 4runner and the catch point was very high. The acceleration was very disappointing and I really didn't feel much oomph until I got higher into the rpm's. Lastly, even under mild acceleration, I could hear the engine knocking. Even though the car looked incredible, it just didn't drive like my 1990 C2 Cab which feels tighter, lower, faster and more "raw". Of course this is just my seat of the pants subjective opinion. Did I drive a lemon?!?!?!
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I've test driven a '98 C2S and wasn't impressed either other then it's a great looking car. Not much low end umphh, clutch is high and shifting is loosy-goosy. I felt like had to crop my hip to the right side to accomadate where the pedals are and feels like my lower half of my body is in an ice cream cone. I'm hoping to drive one with ROW gearing(or other gearing) and LWF next year. Positives though are steering input and air cool sound is great. Regards. Mike
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From: South Carolina
Sounds like you might have driven the same car...
I've owned a couple of 993's and tracked a 996 on a few different days. IMO, there is little or no difference between a 1999-2001 C2 and a 1996-1998 C2 (or C2S) in terms of power.
The numbers are almost identical but the two cars certainly do feel different. I would expect a huge difference in your impressions of your own modded car and a stock 993 (especially in the area of the pedals, etc.).
The lighter steering of the 996 makes it seem quicker down low as well.
I've owned a couple of 993's and tracked a 996 on a few different days. IMO, there is little or no difference between a 1999-2001 C2 and a 1996-1998 C2 (or C2S) in terms of power.
The numbers are almost identical but the two cars certainly do feel different. I would expect a huge difference in your impressions of your own modded car and a stock 993 (especially in the area of the pedals, etc.).
The lighter steering of the 996 makes it seem quicker down low as well.
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From: Beautiful North Carolina
[quote]Originally posted by adscab911:
<strong>OK, just test drove a 1998 C2S. Even though the car looked incredible, it just didn't drive like my 1990 C2 Cab which feels tighter, lower, faster and more "raw". Of course this is just my seat of the pants subjective opinion. Did I drive a lemon?!?!?!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I sold my 1990 C2 and later bought a '96 non-S Coupe and felt similiarly. The power was higher on the 993 but it also heavier (or at least it feels like it!). The sound was definitely better in the 964. Handling was different, but you can't compare a 90K miles car to a 25K car.
As for the clutch, every car is different, although my 993 also had a high engagement point and I found it difficult to engage the clutch as smoothly as I would like. Does the 993 have a dual-mass flywheel and the 964 not?
I wonder...
Just my .02 worth.
Michael <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />
<strong>OK, just test drove a 1998 C2S. Even though the car looked incredible, it just didn't drive like my 1990 C2 Cab which feels tighter, lower, faster and more "raw". Of course this is just my seat of the pants subjective opinion. Did I drive a lemon?!?!?!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I sold my 1990 C2 and later bought a '96 non-S Coupe and felt similiarly. The power was higher on the 993 but it also heavier (or at least it feels like it!). The sound was definitely better in the 964. Handling was different, but you can't compare a 90K miles car to a 25K car.
As for the clutch, every car is different, although my 993 also had a high engagement point and I found it difficult to engage the clutch as smoothly as I would like. Does the 993 have a dual-mass flywheel and the 964 not?
I wonder...Just my .02 worth.
Michael <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />
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In the 1998 C2S's defense... That was a pretty loaded up chassis in comparison to a "standard" 993 coupe.
That is a lot to ask of 282 rated HP. You may want to drive one w/ a computer chip like brother Phil has in his C4S.
I think you may find an earlier less "optioned out" version (such as a 1995 or 1996 standard Carrera) may be more of what you expected.
That is exactly what I did. My car weighs 2970 lb wet, and it responds more like the Porsches of the distant past.
Oh & MJBird... Both pedestrian versions of the 964 & 993 have the dual mass clutch set up.
That is a lot to ask of 282 rated HP. You may want to drive one w/ a computer chip like brother Phil has in his C4S.
I think you may find an earlier less "optioned out" version (such as a 1995 or 1996 standard Carrera) may be more of what you expected.
That is exactly what I did. My car weighs 2970 lb wet, and it responds more like the Porsches of the distant past.
Oh & MJBird... Both pedestrian versions of the 964 & 993 have the dual mass clutch set up.
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From: California
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the reply!
As has been stated numerous times on these boards, we own and drive our cars because they are the greatest "overall" package of performance in the world. With that being said, the seat of the pants feeling is what has hooked me.
I just got the clutch and flywheel (both 993) replaced in my 964 and it feels stiff with the engagement point more in the center. The 964 feels lower and the sound is awesome. It also feels faster but I am sure it is not. It could be that the C2S I test drove had not been maintained and was running poorly, compared to my 964 which is meticulously maintained and in tip top running condition.
I still love the lines of the widebody 993 and will continue my search.
Thanks for the reply!
As has been stated numerous times on these boards, we own and drive our cars because they are the greatest "overall" package of performance in the world. With that being said, the seat of the pants feeling is what has hooked me. I just got the clutch and flywheel (both 993) replaced in my 964 and it feels stiff with the engagement point more in the center. The 964 feels lower and the sound is awesome. It also feels faster but I am sure it is not. It could be that the C2S I test drove had not been maintained and was running poorly, compared to my 964 which is meticulously maintained and in tip top running condition.
I still love the lines of the widebody 993 and will continue my search.
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From: Long Island, NY
I agree that the test car was probably a lemon; however, IMO 993's, and 996's for that matter, have poor low end torque. I include my 3.8 in that as well, although it did improve over stock fairly signficantly. The cars don't have much ***** until you hit 4000-4500rpm. That's where the fun begins.
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re: poor low end torque
When I rescued my former garage queen, it had only 9K miles on it in 5 years. Six weeks later, after almost 5K miles of spirited driving (including zooming home across the country from New York to California), it's really woken up compared to how it felt when I got it- low end torque improved, as has the smoothness of the clutch engagement. I know that part of this is improved familiarity, but even on top of that, it's better behaved. Based on this observation, it's my theory that if these cars aren't warmed up all the way (short drives) and/or are driven too gently, they gunk up. (That's a technical term!)
I do have to agree with one of the comments above about the driver's footwell- I have size 13 feet, and the "dead pedal" is an unacceptably cramped perch; long term I need to figure out a way to address that short of foot reduction surgery.
Other than that, I absolutely LOVE this car!
-Knute
When I rescued my former garage queen, it had only 9K miles on it in 5 years. Six weeks later, after almost 5K miles of spirited driving (including zooming home across the country from New York to California), it's really woken up compared to how it felt when I got it- low end torque improved, as has the smoothness of the clutch engagement. I know that part of this is improved familiarity, but even on top of that, it's better behaved. Based on this observation, it's my theory that if these cars aren't warmed up all the way (short drives) and/or are driven too gently, they gunk up. (That's a technical term!)
I do have to agree with one of the comments above about the driver's footwell- I have size 13 feet, and the "dead pedal" is an unacceptably cramped perch; long term I need to figure out a way to address that short of foot reduction surgery.
Other than that, I absolutely LOVE this car!
-Knute
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From: Philadelphia
MB,
When I had my C2S aligned and corner balanced, it weighed 3055 lbs with half a tank of gas. Including my harness guide bar, harnesses, fire extinguisher, strut tower brace and floor mats. Not much of a difference from your narrow bodied '96.
Richard
When I had my C2S aligned and corner balanced, it weighed 3055 lbs with half a tank of gas. Including my harness guide bar, harnesses, fire extinguisher, strut tower brace and floor mats. Not much of a difference from your narrow bodied '96.
Richard
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Richard,
Hey, not bad. You have a particularly "svelte" C2S. However, I have the same equipment (bars, extinguisher, brace, and TWO sets of mats
) plus: about a full tank of fuel, and (drum roll) I had a tool box under the bonnet (I was giving a hands on tech session at a Porsche event), and my car cover, bra, CD's & cassettes, not to mention my luggage for the 3 day weekend. Car was "right off the highway - in street trim" and we were using it to show people how to read race scales.
I guess I could have unloaded.
My point being... 100+ pounds between your S & my Carrera is plenty. I have been known to saw off HALF of my license plate bracket just for the weight savings... 100 pounds is like hauling a trailer to me.
Hey, not bad. You have a particularly "svelte" C2S. However, I have the same equipment (bars, extinguisher, brace, and TWO sets of mats
) plus: about a full tank of fuel, and (drum roll) I had a tool box under the bonnet (I was giving a hands on tech session at a Porsche event), and my car cover, bra, CD's & cassettes, not to mention my luggage for the 3 day weekend. Car was "right off the highway - in street trim" and we were using it to show people how to read race scales.I guess I could have unloaded.
My point being... 100+ pounds between your S & my Carrera is plenty. I have been known to saw off HALF of my license plate bracket just for the weight savings... 100 pounds is like hauling a trailer to me.
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From: Rhode Island, usa
How long was you test drive? My C2S requires 15 minutes minimum before it makes best power. After that the throttle response in the first couple gears is awesome. At neutral throttle in first gear, straight line level road, clutch out at 2500rpm, mash the throttle quickly and it comes sideways. I have the "sport" intake and exhaust but don't think it makes that much difference. I've also set up the cooling fan so it runs all the time and removed the engine undertray. Too much heat on an aircooled motor robs power.