Willy

Hi All,

I noticed that there's some clicking noise when the car is revved during load (in 3rd gear, reving from 2k to 4k), sounds like the vario cam is kicking in or something... anyone has the same noise? any concerns? My car has about 80k miles on it.

Many Thanks!!

Viken

It could be pinging. Try a better grade gasoline. But, at 80k miles, you may have a lot of carbon build-up on the pistons. Also, your car does not have Variocam. It's Varioram you probably meant.

Willy

Thanks for the correction... I've been using Chevron 94oct fuel... I've also put a dose of Lubro Moly's Ventil Sauber.... i hope it helps...

User 4621

It could also be lifter noise. Stand by your engine at idle. Is there a light clicking sound on one side but not the other? Does it change as you rev the engine?

Keep in mind that our engines don't have a water jacket and therefore will have lots of little sounds usually not noticed on others. You're looking for a difference side to side.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I vote for lifter noise.

We've recently replaced lifters in a bunch of 993 engines that suddenly failed. Lots of valve noise is the tell-tale.

You can isolate that using a stethoscope or a very long screwdriver placed on the valve cover(s) while it running, and placing your ear to the end of the handle. You'll hear the rapping noise rise & fall with engine speed.

If it turns out to be lifters, don't delay in replacing them. They run $ 54.16/each

Willy

Thanks for all the relies... I'll bring the car in for a check....

JPS

How much $$ is it to replace if that is it? I did an Auto X on Saturday and then drove around a bit, and just as I was putting her away and running to airport, I heard something clicking that sounded on left side...didn't have time to diagnose or see if it would still be there in the am...but if it is a lifter, what are we talking about to fix here?

John D.

Bump...

Having run 3 days at the track - not only in my run groups, but giving rides to students (and other Instructors who were in Friday's training program) - my 993 ran a LOT of sessions, a few of them pretty hard. So - a couple of questions... (it's a '95 with 120,000 miles)...

Can just the failed lifters be replaced - or should the all be replaced? I think it's #5 intake (could be #6) and also #2 exhaust.

The "while I'm in there" question.. "While I'm in there" - any thoughts as to what else I ought to be thinking about - as this will be the first 3.6 I've torn down (Valve guides (mine appear to be fine), etc....)

Thanks...!

(and oh - welcome to the new PCA National Approved Instructors who passed the formal Training Program on Friday (pulled together by Ellen Beck (Lifetime Rennlister) with assistance from Bob R. (gt2/gt3 Forum Moderator!). A few of the new PCA National Instructors include Rennlisters - Pete Griffin and Dennis Liu - and 4 others. Congrats and Welcome again!!!)

viperbob

So where is Ellen these days? What board does she post on most often? I would love to say hello...

John D.

I'll answer your question - if you answer mine Heh!!

Seriously - she hangs out on the e-mail lists for the most part.. Doesn't post much, but when Dennis posted his long post about the NCR event to the 911 list Friday night - Ellen brought a printed copy the next day...

BTW: She's doing great - and can out-drive most of the National Instructors (well - except me, of course - in case you want to tell her I said so..!..!! )

Now - about my lifters... I'm guessing its easier to pull the engine then try to replace them with the engine in the car (gawd damned PS pump - that's an engineering marvel in "engine placement"..!! )

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi John:

If I might,......

If you have some noisy lifters, I'd replace them all at your mileage. I've been down this road just a few times,... The seals fail and they they "bleed" pressure; no replacement seals are available.

This can be done with the motor in the car although its clumsy. Me? I'd pull it and then you can do this very easily and much quicker.

I tell people that frequent oil changes make lifters last longer. The other root cause for failure are excessive oil temps.

Enjoy,....

John D.

Hi Steve,

You sure may reply - I was sort of hoping you'd post back to this question, so - THANK YOU!!.

My thoughts were along the same lines as yours - to replace them all. However, I wasn't aware that the higher oil temps could induce a collapsed lifter(s) either - so thanks for that info! I'm guessing you are right on with both inputs - higher milage coupled with five back-to-back sessions (higher oil temps). While it was only 55-60 degrees at the track, I did see oil temps in the 220 - 230 range, which leads me to also want to check the OC fan - as it may have shot the resistor, as after that no OC fan (but, I was pretty intent on listing to the clickty-clack of the engine, so I may not have noticed either lo or high speeds of that fan? )

Steve, my thanks again.. And damn - I wished you lived closer Any thoughts about moving to NH??!!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hiya John:


Although I'm certainly not the 'last word' on this issue, I've tracked this one for several years as all we do are race and track cars. As such, these things see far more frequent trips to the redline compared to street cars and daily drivers.

Based on personal observations, I'd say that the majority of hydraulic lifter failures are due to infrequent oil changes (FOD) and excessive running temperatures (seal failures).

I really like to see oil temps contained to 180 deg F to 200 deg F for maximum component life and frankly, best power. This is not tough to do with street cars, but track & race cars need extra oil cooling and IMHO, its a very good investment,...

I would also suggest a manual overide switch for the OC fan as that will aid cooling it down.

Maybe a satellite operation in the NE might be in future,...

viperbob

Wow John 220-230 is high. Maybe you should jump on board with Kary's group buy. The CG cooler keeps my temps on the track on 80+ degree days to 200.. These are great units.

And I always recommend replacing damaged components as a group. It saves a lot of money and issues in the long run. If one failed, there is a good chance that another is soon to go. I see this a lot with O2 sensors. Especially the after the cat one. I recommend changing these in pairs as I have seen that if you replace one, about a 50% chance the other one goes in a month or so. (strange but true). Like my wifes BMW, 2 window regulators failed within 24 hours. These guys have planned obsolescence down to a science (MTBF equal to 5 minutes after warranty expires with a 2 standard deviation of 1 minute)....