OT: GGR points system - check it out
02-16-2004, 03:12 PM
#16
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Hey Boris - you nailed the intent of the system right on the head. We want there to be fewer classes so that there is more competitive spirit. And, we want to avoid having any single modification result in an uncompetitive classification.
The white cab gets 510 points as the points stand right now. 400 base points and then 110 in mods.
I'm working on the database this week that will show on the website:
- Everyone's point totals and how they got there (the web forms, basically)
- The current class break downs (so you know who you are competing against)
- The "highly unofficial" results for all 2004 competition events as they would be if this system were actually in place.
So, if you haven't already filled out the web form, I'd really appreciate if you would do so and also encourage others that you know to do so.
Cheers,
Dean
The white cab gets 510 points as the points stand right now. 400 base points and then 110 in mods.
I'm working on the database this week that will show on the website:
- Everyone's point totals and how they got there (the web forms, basically)
- The current class break downs (so you know who you are competing against)
- The "highly unofficial" results for all 2004 competition events as they would be if this system were actually in place.
So, if you haven't already filled out the web form, I'd really appreciate if you would do so and also encourage others that you know to do so.
Cheers,
Dean
02-16-2004, 03:14 PM
#17
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Dean,
Already filled out the form. Hmmm at 510 points and me at 540 - i guess we'll be in the same class. There goes any potential for a 1st...
Cheers,
Boris
Already filled out the form. Hmmm at 510 points and me at 540 - i guess we'll be in the same class. There goes any potential for a 1st...
Cheers,
Boris
02-16-2004, 05:06 PM
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Only 510. Hmmm, the HWFM scrutineers may have to check the car out in detail. We not only now have to compete with Dean but Laura too, so we will have some interesting battles this season!
02-17-2004, 01:39 AM
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Are there some typos in that pdf file, or am I completely misreading it?
Here's the ones that struck me as odd or more likely typos.
1) Line 137 says a 95 C4 coupe/cab is 425 points, but all the other 993s start at 450 (including the 95 C2)
2) Line 155 has a 2004 996 GT3 at 475 points. That seems like a good deal considering a 996C2 is at 525.
3) In the forced induction section...
"The car was normally aspirated in stock form and now has a forced induction system with moving parts, including but not limited to turbo charging and supercharging".... 5 points
Am I reading that correctly? Adding a turbo engine to your 993 is 5 points?
FWIW, I also think the points system will be cool. I'll be in Np this year, but I only have 495 or so points.
Here's the ones that struck me as odd or more likely typos.
1) Line 137 says a 95 C4 coupe/cab is 425 points, but all the other 993s start at 450 (including the 95 C2)
2) Line 155 has a 2004 996 GT3 at 475 points. That seems like a good deal considering a 996C2 is at 525.
3) In the forced induction section...
"The car was normally aspirated in stock form and now has a forced induction system with moving parts, including but not limited to turbo charging and supercharging".... 5 points
Am I reading that correctly? Adding a turbo engine to your 993 is 5 points?
FWIW, I also think the points system will be cool. I'll be in Np this year, but I only have 495 or so points.
02-17-2004, 01:49 AM
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Rob,
well in that case you will be competing with harry demas - watch out - he has a very capable car - oh and the thing between the steering wheel & seat is capable too!
LOL
well in that case you will be competing with harry demas - watch out - he has a very capable car - oh and the thing between the steering wheel & seat is capable too!
LOL
02-17-2004, 02:08 AM
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Well, I never said I'd do well in Np, but I'll have some fun. My shocks are badly worn, and I couldn't resist a bigger upgrade.
It's pretty easy to fly past Ni. It looks like JICs (or PSS-9s), or even a LWF bump you all the way to Np.
It's pretty easy to fly past Ni. It looks like JICs (or PSS-9s), or even a LWF bump you all the way to Np.
Originally posted by Boris Teksler
Rob,
well in that case you will be competing with harry demas - watch out - he has a very capable car - oh and the thing between the steering wheel & seat is capable too!
LOL
Rob,
well in that case you will be competing with harry demas - watch out - he has a very capable car - oh and the thing between the steering wheel & seat is capable too!
LOL
02-17-2004, 11:59 AM
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Hey guys,
There are definitely a few mistakes that found a way into this first draft of the system. This is EXACTLY why we're running it in parallel this year, to work out all the kinks and corner cases. You've already found a couple of the errors. Another one that was mentioned ealier was regarding compression ratio. Stock compression (per engine number) should garner 0 points while up to one point over gets 10 points...
The one thing that I'd ask is not to get bent out of shape on any single modification or base points value. Instead, just provide feedback to the rules committee. Trust me, we'll listen!
The committee is meeting later this week to go through all the feedback we've received so far and to run the limited results that we got on Sunday at the Infineon Time Trial through the system.
Regarding scrutineering, I think this is something that will actually be easier with the new system than it is now. Since the modifications you claim will be public knowledge, it isn't difficult for someone to look at your car and say, "Hey, I'm not a mechanic, but those things look like turbos to me and you've selected the normally aspirated option on question 27..."
If you're interested, I'd be happy to break those 510 points down for you. And Tom, you're right to worry about Laura... it is only a matter of time before she's faster than me. She was within a second of me at Infineon on Saturday!
Dean
There are definitely a few mistakes that found a way into this first draft of the system. This is EXACTLY why we're running it in parallel this year, to work out all the kinks and corner cases. You've already found a couple of the errors. Another one that was mentioned ealier was regarding compression ratio. Stock compression (per engine number) should garner 0 points while up to one point over gets 10 points...
The one thing that I'd ask is not to get bent out of shape on any single modification or base points value. Instead, just provide feedback to the rules committee. Trust me, we'll listen!
The committee is meeting later this week to go through all the feedback we've received so far and to run the limited results that we got on Sunday at the Infineon Time Trial through the system.
Regarding scrutineering, I think this is something that will actually be easier with the new system than it is now. Since the modifications you claim will be public knowledge, it isn't difficult for someone to look at your car and say, "Hey, I'm not a mechanic, but those things look like turbos to me and you've selected the normally aspirated option on question 27..."
If you're interested, I'd be happy to break those 510 points down for you. And Tom, you're right to worry about Laura... it is only a matter of time before she's faster than me. She was within a second of me at Infineon on Saturday!
Dean
02-17-2004, 12:49 PM
#23
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Dean, It's always easier to edit and point out typo's or things not liked than it is to create the draft. We will all be happy to help you guys work out some of the issues in the new system, and we do reconize it's a work in progress.
Rob, you need just one or two simple mods to catch Boris or the Turtle. We're cheering you on (can you hear us?). I hear a chant that sounds like "suspension! Suspension! SUSPENSION!". I'll miss the first autox but am looking forward to #2 (or even the zone autox at the end of March).
Dean, I've given up trying to catch you for now, but am not happy to have to compete against Laura. She's too damn fast for us old Turtles. And I don't want to hear any sillyness about ladies needing a different PAX modifier in the new system. If anything they should be penalized because the weigh less than us.
Rob, you need just one or two simple mods to catch Boris or the Turtle. We're cheering you on (can you hear us?). I hear a chant that sounds like "suspension! Suspension! SUSPENSION!". I'll miss the first autox but am looking forward to #2 (or even the zone autox at the end of March).
Dean, I've given up trying to catch you for now, but am not happy to have to compete against Laura. She's too damn fast for us old Turtles. And I don't want to hear any sillyness about ladies needing a different PAX modifier in the new system. If anything they should be penalized because the weigh less than us.
02-17-2004, 01:34 PM
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i'll second the weigh less than us comment !
I've made a couple changes to the car this season, so we'll see how (I'm sorry i don't have a name for my car yet) my car performs.
After all, Tom & I are going to have to keep up with the Thomas' ;-)
Tom - don't think they are out of sight for us.
On a sidenote, i am a bit worried about my tire selection for this year. I switch to MPSC tires and I'm afraid the khumos would be a bit faster for autox. That is my one change that may be a negative. we will see.
Cheers,
Boris
I've made a couple changes to the car this season, so we'll see how (I'm sorry i don't have a name for my car yet) my car performs.
After all, Tom & I are going to have to keep up with the Thomas' ;-)
Tom - don't think they are out of sight for us.
On a sidenote, i am a bit worried about my tire selection for this year. I switch to MPSC tires and I'm afraid the khumos would be a bit faster for autox. That is my one change that may be a negative. we will see.
Cheers,
Boris
02-17-2004, 02:10 PM
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Crap. Competing against Dean AND Laura? Oh man...
I think to make this fair they should have to keep the white cab on the trailer and drive the course with the truck pulling it. That should give us a fighting chance, and is in keeping with GGR rules that if you are in the club, you don't actually have to drive the Porsche to compete
I will post this question to Leong, but also here...am I understanding that my Euro Turbo nose on my NA cab adds 5 points?
I think to make this fair they should have to keep the white cab on the trailer and drive the course with the truck pulling it. That should give us a fighting chance, and is in keeping with GGR rules that if you are in the club, you don't actually have to drive the Porsche to compete
I will post this question to Leong, but also here...am I understanding that my Euro Turbo nose on my NA cab adds 5 points?
02-17-2004, 02:59 PM
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If one could argue that the Euro Turbo nose either a) has any weight savings or b) improves airflow compared to the NA stock nose, you'd be in Np for Time Trial given the current rules. For autocross, you'd be ok in N.
If either of the above is true, then this is another good example of how one seemingly innocuous modification can bump you into a class where the car would be uncompetitive. Isn't 5 points better than Np?
It is possible that we'll make a distinction between autocross and time trial, so airdams are likely to get little to no points in autoX while in TT, they might get more points. No promises on that, as there is a LOT of discussion and good reasoning on both sides of the issue.
Dean
If either of the above is true, then this is another good example of how one seemingly innocuous modification can bump you into a class where the car would be uncompetitive. Isn't 5 points better than Np?
It is possible that we'll make a distinction between autocross and time trial, so airdams are likely to get little to no points in autoX while in TT, they might get more points. No promises on that, as there is a LOT of discussion and good reasoning on both sides of the issue.
Dean
