Greg Fishman

I can give a little insight here. My mechanic does more Porsche gearboxes a year than most shops see in 10.

Gears from Paul Guard are about $500-600. a piece.
Porsche Motorsport gears are closer to $1K. My mechanic does a lot of gear boxes for other shops that don't have the time or expertise to do them on their own. Only draw back would be that you would have to ship your box to him if you aren't in the Cincinnati area.

Fred just had his gearbox re-geared so maybe he can give a better accounting of the labor cost involved. I do know that it can take half a day to get the ring and pinion set correctly, if it isn't your R&P will wear out prematurely.
There are also lots of parts that look like they could be installed numerous ways but will only work when installed the correct way, and the manual is sometimes less than helpful in these situations and you need experience to sort it out.

Greg

Fred R. C4S

Make sure you're sitting down, and have your 6 point harness tight. I am recalling these costs from memory as I do not have the invoice in my office.

1. Labor - flat rate to remove and install trans axle and engine from C4S = 15 hrs x labor rate at dealer or whomever. From the service manual it would appear that you can drop the box separately. However, it might actually be less work (but slightly more cost) to drop both. I had the RS LWF installed at this time for no additional labor.

2. Freight from central Illinois to Cincinatti was $60 each way.

3. Labor - flat rate for complete gearbox disassembly, inspection and reassembly - $600. Any parts extra.

4. Gears sets - Porsche Motorsport - $1000 per set. I can't remember the quote for the Paul Guard gears, but Greg's estimate sounds right. You need to consider 3-6 gears.

5. Changing 2nd or 1rst requires a new main shaft as 1 is machined on new shaft and I believe 2 is pernamantly affixed (shrink fit??). This is VERY expensive.

6. Synchros - OEM brass $70, Porsche Motorsport steel - $145.

As you can see, the costs add up. As I was forced to have the box opened to repair my "stuck in neutral" problem, my cost to upgrade was the cost of the new gears and synchros. The steel synchros have smaller dog teeth, a slightly greater gap between them, and a slight ramp angle to facilitate their engagement. Trust me, they shift smoother than my car did when new.

The Porsche Motorsport gears have a final grind process that makes them run quiter than the Paul Guard gears. I opted for all Porsche parts. The shop in Cincy does boxes for most of the Porsche teams in North America. He has just about every gear set imaginable instock. Some of the gear sets used in my box where taking from new Porsche Motorsport gearboxes that teams wanted regeared for their first event. They had 60 miles "break-in" at Weissach before shipment to the US. These sets are not often used at US tracks. The ratios I used are the "Clubsport" ratios.

Together with the LWF the performance difference is amazing. 6th is now slightly taller than my original 5th. The canyon of a gap between 2nd and 3rd is gone. I now have 2 gears to pick from for just about any road speed. One for quick acceleration from 3000 rpm, and the next gear for better fuel economy at 2500 rpm. I have seen a 5-10% increase in fuel consumption as I am usually pulling 3000 rpm where before I was at 2500.

The Cincy shop has at least 4 more sets of these ratios, and would be happy to regear your box now that the race season is over. Ifg you want more info, send me a priovate E-Mail.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Fred R.

Trust me, after I shift to 3rd, I am gone.........

Greg Fishman

If you replace the 2nd gear synchro with a steel one expect it to be close to $1200 for the three piece Motorsport part. The other synchros are relatively cheap.

I have the Guard gears for all but third gear and in the beginning there was a definite gear whine in all but 3rd gear. Now that the gears have worn in a bit there isn't any difference. Of course if would be hard pressed to hear it with a straight exhaust anyway.

Greg H.

I thought Michael was asking for used gearboxes. It seems to me that is a much cheaper, albeit risky, route.

If anyone is interested, I found two of them with 30K miles for $3,000 (each) shipped to your door.

Greg

DJF1

[quote]Originally posted by Greg H.:
<strong>
If anyone is interested, I found two of them with 30K miles for $3,000 (each) shipped to your door.

Greg</strong><hr></blockquote>

These are 64/21's stock? or re-geared?

Greg H.

Stock. Out of salvage vehicles.

Greg

Fred R. C4S

Greg,

I didn't think that these G64/21 boxes were ever imported to the USA. Switzerland and the USA were given the G64/20 box until '97 when the whole world got the G64/20. Maybe Viken can shed some light on this.

To be sure, you can check the serial number on the bottom of the housing.

Fred R.

chris walrod

after the type number on the bottom of the trans, there will be a 1 or a 2. This denotes limited slip or not. A #2= limited slip.

That sounds like a great deal for a G64-21.

Lets see, how can I trick my CFO (wife)into letting me spend $3k for a trans when mine is ok.....HHHHMMMMM


Chris

Viken

[quote]Originally posted by Fred R. C4S:
<strong>I didn't think that these G64/21 boxes were ever imported to the USA. Switzerland and the USA were given the G64/20 box until '97 when the whole world got the G64/20. Maybe Viken can shed some light on this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is correct. No /21 gearboxes were installed on any US cars. BTW, I hope most of you know that 2WD cars take a G50 and AWD cars have to have a G64. Both of them were available as /20 or /21 versions.

Greg H.

I apologize if my post above lead anyone to believe that I had some transmissions. I suppose I should have said I found someone who has some transmissions.

And you can too. Go to the Rennlist classifieds - members - parts. There is a guy named Harald in Germany selling some black sport seats. I don't know him from Adam, but he had posted some interesting stuff on the Pelican board including some G50/21 trannys. So in the interests of this thread I emailed him asking about G64/21 and he replied he has two. He seems to have all sorts of stuff. Have fun.

Greg

Mdrury

Greg, thanks! I got the answer I was looking for in the end. I know it's riskier getting a used transmission. I wouldn't have expected to find any G64/21 in US anyway, that's why I'm looking further afield. UK inputs anyone?

Paul

Factory new 964/21 AWD transmissions are around $7,500, and come with LSD. The G50/21 transmissions are the same price, but do NOT come with LSD.

This is from Brian Copans in Cincinatti.

Paul

Greg H.

I thought the C4S came standard with an LSD

(Edit) I misread the post above. All is ok

Greg

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Paul:
<strong>Factory new 964/21 AWD transmissions are around $7,500, and come with LSD. The G50/21 transmissions are the same price, but do NOT come with LSD.

This is from Brian Copans in Cincinatti.

Paul</strong><hr></blockquote>

That seems fair for a new /21 box. I bet Brian would also work out some sort of trade for your std box as well. Say $2.5K- $4K, add a lsd to the box and you are out the door for around $7K or so.

Whirlwind

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't there a ring & pinion somewhere that could be changed? Kind of like changing a 3.73 chevy rear end for a 4.11 rear end instead? If so, it seems like that would be much cheaper.