miramont

Recently, like one week ago, I bought a 97 993 from a dealer in Portland, Oregon. I took the car to a local porsche mechanic shop in Santa Barbara. Here are his findings: The car needs a new clutch, and it will not pass the smog check because someone gutted the cat.

Now here's my questions: In California a dealer cannot sell you a car without a passing smog certificate. Is the same true in Oregon?

Question 2: do I have any recourse with the clutch situation?

Any and all advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

chris walrod

I would definitely get on-line and search for Oregon smog laws. Inform yourself with all the info you can, without too much time passing. You obviously posted here, which would be my first place to ask these sort of questions.

Then call the dealer, quietly explain your problems etc. See what their response is??

jocko

Joe,

A few questions:

1. Was it a Porsche Dealer that sold you the car?
2. Was there any kind of warranty?

If I am not mistaken, there is a federal law (or a state law) which prohibits tampering with emissions equipment. I am sure that one way or another there is a similar requirement in Oregon (either via state or federal law). Either way, even if the dealer did not do the tampering, it is required to sell cars with functioning emissions devices unless stipulated otherwise by agreement.

With respect to your clutch, if the dealer sold the car to you as-is and w/o warranty, you may have a tough time recovering for the clutch unless the dealer deceived you by representing that the car a had functional clutch. Need more info here.

Hope this helps...
Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW M3
1988 BMW 325IS
2001 KTM 400MXC

YellowC4S

First question, was there a PPI done prior to purchase?

Carrera GT

How many miles on the car?
Receipts?
Previous owners?
reference www.dmv.ca.gov (smog law)
Which dealer?

At the very least, you can claim $5000 in small claims court. You can get free legal advice before retaining a lawyer. With some effort, you can represent yourself (despite the old saying "A lawyer representing himself has a fool for a client...") and it's all about presenting the case -- any written statements by the seller (even advertising other cars with phrases like "all our cars undergo a 160 point test ... " or emails etc., combined with a written quote from say three professional, Porsche specialists indicating nobody could have inspected or even driven the car without knowing the clutch was dead etc.

A devious person might borrow cats from a friend's car ...

ca993twin

The above advice is good, but I'd add this. If you must replace the clutch (is it slipping?), then consider the light-weight flywheel/rs clutch assembly. A nice upgrade from the very heavy, dual-mass flywheel that our cars come with. On the cats... I'd bet you could trade your gutted cat for a functioning cat from someone on this board. Maybe from a non-smog state? Or borrow one, as someone else suggested. Is it possible to pass Calif smog with a gutted cat? Probably not, but perhaps worth a try.

Good luck with your negotiations. Let us know how it comes out.

Dr. No

I would be scared to death to try to pass a CA smog test with an altered cat. Don't know, but think there are some unbelieveable fines, if not worse.

Phil

most used cars are sold "as is"

Where did you try to get the car smogged ? Ca DMV requires a "visual" inspection, but I doubt whoever did the smog would take the cat apart?

Steve 96C4S

I bought my 96 C4S 1 year ago from Luxury Motors in Downers Grove, and when I went for the PPI at Napleton Porsche ($315 for a PPI there! - ouch), they said that the car would be needing a clutch very soon! I asked the seller about this, and they said, for the price I was getting it for ($40,500), I'd have to pay for this repair. The dealer DID pick up the price of the delaminating windshield replacement (about $450) but I paid them $2200 to do the clutch before I drove it the 750 miles back to DC.

See what they say. Used cars are almost ALWAYS as is for wear items like this.

Gosh, didn't you get a PPI? Caveat emptor.

Steve

Ray Calvo

Sure - make him an offer he can't refuse!

FlyYellow

Joe,

it always chills my heart reading a thread like this one. but here is my .02:

- i would expect a Porsche Dealer to have the technical competency to check any p-car prior to sale. so the question of whether it was willful or whether they had specific knowledge of the problem(s) is irrelevant, because they have the means to know in my mind they must know any deffeciency and should disclose it. therefore, even if it is an innocent mistake (which i hope it was) the obligation is that a p-car dealer would take responsibility.

- there are basic requirements for all dealers in the sale of cars (i.e. safety check, smog check...) i would definetely find out the specific legal requirements as related to a smog check. Assuming the dealer failed to meet their legal requirements, then you/they have options to cure the problem. This can range from them agreeing to compensate you $x to supply & install a new cat to you returning the vehicle to them.

- clutch issue: this is likely to be an ethical question as opposed to a legal obligation. Once you've taken possession for some period (i think 3days) you have lost your right to return the car. Furthermore, from their perspective you could have ridden the clutch all the way back to Santa Barbara, thus destroying it. Furthermore, it is likely that if the dealer had to install a new clutch they would likely have raised the price of the car. Of course, they should have known about it and disclosed it. In my book this lends itself to having them supply you the parts and you paying someone to install the clutch. This would be an ideal result - i don't think you'll get better.


OK - i guess that was more like 0.25

cheers,
boris

miramont

Thanks all for your much needed and appreciated advice. I'm calling the dealer today to discuss the issues at hand.

An interesting side note for future purchases: The Department of Justice, specifically the Financial Fraud Section has interesting information about any dealer who has had a complaint filed against them.