Salvage Title 97 C2 -- should I buy it?
06-13-2018, 03:54 PM
#16
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I would have someone drive who knows how it should feel to evaluate the issue. I would also pay for an alignment to see if it takes one. Frame damage can make the steering feel dead and the tire ringing sound from the unibody may be absent both signs that the car is not a good buy candidate.
06-13-2018, 04:06 PM
#17
I missed the full leather interior. Very rare and nice on a 993. Only other thing I noticed is the wipers aren't parked correctly. Not a big deal but could be evidence that the accident damage extended a little farther back than is being claimed. I wouldn't be scared off by the salvage title. If you know what you're buying, you're going into it clear-eyed.
06-13-2018, 04:16 PM
#18
It is hard enough to deal with any kind of accident on a Carfax with the Porsche market. I think trying to sell a 993 with a salvage tittle has got to be a rough proposition. I would pass.
06-13-2018, 04:43 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
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I don't want to derail this thread, so perhaps I should start a different one. But what I want to say is kind of related to owning a salvaged car.
Most people are thinking all about the potential profits we all hope we can make with our 993s. But it's getting to the point where people don't want to drive their cars any more. It's getting to the point where people are only thinking about the $$$ and wanting to turn not just our 993s into garage queens but also numerous GT3 RS cars are no long being driven and are spending all their time in the garage. Yes my car is in great condition for it's age and luckily it has never been in an accident or no dings. It does has some paint chips and the driver's seat has wear (nothing radical but it is worn). So my car is not a collectors car. It never has been one and it never will be one. It just happens to be a very nice 1997 Porsche 993C2 (with a few extra nice performance mods but nothing too crazy). You know in the not too distant future, governments will ban all gasoline powered vehicles and will also ban humans from driving cars on the public roads. It's coming, don't kid yourself. How long will this 993 bubble last before it bursts, before we are all left with some very heavy paper weights. Yes I would like to make some $$$ just like everyone else. But before you know it, it will be my time to leave the party and all the money in the world means nothing,
Once again I will try not to derail this thread, but please tell me again why I should not track my 993? It's nothing more than a medium speed Porsche and yet people say "You should not track that car, you need to preserve it". Preserve it for who? If I didn't like driving my car so much, I would be smart to sell it now, today because while I cannot speak for how the American 993 market is going, here in Canada our economy is beginning to tank, it's tanking really fast. We've basically told the world "Canada is not open for business". We are on the fast track towards making ourselves into a 3rd world cess pool.
So back on topic. If this car passes it's PPI and it is safe to drive at speed, buy the thing, mod it and track the hell out of it while you can. And if tracking cars is not your thing, drive it as much as you want and enjoy it while you can. 2030 is not that far away and life is going to be radically different on this planet 12 years from now.
Most people are thinking all about the potential profits we all hope we can make with our 993s. But it's getting to the point where people don't want to drive their cars any more. It's getting to the point where people are only thinking about the $$$ and wanting to turn not just our 993s into garage queens but also numerous GT3 RS cars are no long being driven and are spending all their time in the garage. Yes my car is in great condition for it's age and luckily it has never been in an accident or no dings. It does has some paint chips and the driver's seat has wear (nothing radical but it is worn). So my car is not a collectors car. It never has been one and it never will be one. It just happens to be a very nice 1997 Porsche 993C2 (with a few extra nice performance mods but nothing too crazy). You know in the not too distant future, governments will ban all gasoline powered vehicles and will also ban humans from driving cars on the public roads. It's coming, don't kid yourself. How long will this 993 bubble last before it bursts, before we are all left with some very heavy paper weights. Yes I would like to make some $$$ just like everyone else. But before you know it, it will be my time to leave the party and all the money in the world means nothing,
Once again I will try not to derail this thread, but please tell me again why I should not track my 993? It's nothing more than a medium speed Porsche and yet people say "You should not track that car, you need to preserve it". Preserve it for who? If I didn't like driving my car so much, I would be smart to sell it now, today because while I cannot speak for how the American 993 market is going, here in Canada our economy is beginning to tank, it's tanking really fast. We've basically told the world "Canada is not open for business". We are on the fast track towards making ourselves into a 3rd world cess pool.
So back on topic. If this car passes it's PPI and it is safe to drive at speed, buy the thing, mod it and track the hell out of it while you can. And if tracking cars is not your thing, drive it as much as you want and enjoy it while you can. 2030 is not that far away and life is going to be radically different on this planet 12 years from now.
06-13-2018, 07:47 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
What are the front tire treads like?
hopefully they have several thousand miles on them and you can see how they are wearing
the treads should be mirror images of each other with inner vs outer wear corresponding to the camber setting. Even eyeballing the camber will tell you how negative it it
then you need to drive it and see how it behaves in aggressive cornering (in a safe environment of course)
if you are not familiar with the 993 performance maybe a local RLer can drive for you
my point is salvage title means significant repairs which if done correctly is nothing to worry about. You're buying a drivers car so it needs to drive like a 993. You don't want to take on any chassis adjustment work
PPI just as everyone has said but do your due diligence on the front alignment in as many ways as you can
good luck. Looks like a sweet ride
hopefully they have several thousand miles on them and you can see how they are wearing
the treads should be mirror images of each other with inner vs outer wear corresponding to the camber setting. Even eyeballing the camber will tell you how negative it it
then you need to drive it and see how it behaves in aggressive cornering (in a safe environment of course)
if you are not familiar with the 993 performance maybe a local RLer can drive for you
my point is salvage title means significant repairs which if done correctly is nothing to worry about. You're buying a drivers car so it needs to drive like a 993. You don't want to take on any chassis adjustment work
PPI just as everyone has said but do your due diligence on the front alignment in as many ways as you can
good luck. Looks like a sweet ride
06-13-2018, 09:01 PM
#21
I've owned a couple salvaged cars. One good one bad. For me, so long as you do intend to drive it, resale is secondary, and you are comfortable with the price, seems OK. DEFINITELY PPI it, and put it on an alignment machine to make sure its straight. If no red flags there I'd be good, but this is def a personal call. Just my $0.02. Good luck!
06-14-2018, 01:34 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
It's difficult to convey benefits of buying a salvage vehicle to a crowd that is mostly concerned with garaging and future sales estimates ...If on the other hand
your intent is to drive , enjoy ,maybe track a bit should you enter the transaction with open eyes , the negative connotations can dimenish and the car can be seen for what it is .
Simply a considerable discount on an average to decent chassis vehicle with a branded title either from damage repair or even theft parts loss.
if you can wrap your head around realizing resale will also be deminished and somewhat difficult you can then accept the advantages of purchasing at this
discount , usually for the willing to get their hands dirty and familiar with repair on many levels.
All that understood if it's straight , tracks correctly ,and has no obvious tire tread abnormalities I say have someone more versed than yourself look it over and prepare to get what you want... YMMV , Bert
your intent is to drive , enjoy ,maybe track a bit should you enter the transaction with open eyes , the negative connotations can dimenish and the car can be seen for what it is .
Simply a considerable discount on an average to decent chassis vehicle with a branded title either from damage repair or even theft parts loss.
if you can wrap your head around realizing resale will also be deminished and somewhat difficult you can then accept the advantages of purchasing at this
discount , usually for the willing to get their hands dirty and familiar with repair on many levels.
All that understood if it's straight , tracks correctly ,and has no obvious tire tread abnormalities I say have someone more versed than yourself look it over and prepare to get what you want... YMMV , Bert
06-14-2018, 03:11 AM
#23
Instructor
I wouldn’t worry about the salvage title issue as long as the ppi checks out and it drives well. I just picked up a late model Range Rover sport that had a salvage title. Some interior parts were stolen and the insurance company totaled the car. Other than the missing parts, The interior and the exterior are perfect. It needs a nav screen, some switches and window motors. The nav screen from the dealer was $6300. Looks like a beautiful car. Buy it and drive it like you stole it. Phil
06-14-2018, 08:44 AM
#24
If it's going to be a driver and the PPI checks out and it drives straight, you're into a nice 993 for $20K less an equivalent non-salvage car - what's not to like?
If it were a short term thing, like any other investment you make your money at time of purchase.
If it were a short term thing, like any other investment you make your money at time of purchase.
06-14-2018, 09:17 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
06-14-2018, 10:29 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Hello, I have owned several salvage cars and my friend owns a body shop and I see a lot of damaged/repaired cars.
First reason to buy a salvage car is that you are getting a really good deal and are going to drive it, you know exactly what is wrong with, know what else it may need and resale should not be on your mind. You want a 993, at a great price and drive the living daylights out of it.
How long ago was the accident, get a car report see where car it was, how many owners, there should still be some service records.
If the car was fairly new when damaged the owner may have had a good insurance and basically said I do not want this car back as its damaged, it could have been stolen and they paid out, then they have to salvage it. Different states, different insurance companies do this differently.
What ever the reason was "it was" the key is did a good body shop repair it. Good shops have good "frame machines" any car is rebuildable with right machine and good guys.
One of the most important thing is to visit with the owner, see what he knows, is he a good guy and is he telling you the truth as far as he knows it.
Why is he selling?
What is the story, all cars have a story, get the fax report before you go and be prepared. When he bought it did he get a PPI, has he had it serviced?
How long ago was it repaired, how long has this owner had it.
Make sure you have a pad, take notes, make sure the seller knows you want to buy a 993 and that you are not worried about the title, but you want to make sure the work has been done to as new specs.
You want to be methodical in the process.
Start with the outside Inspect the car, check the body lines(gaps) run your finger down them , fenders to doors, fender to hood.
"The front bumper to fender fit looks a little wavy it may be photo.
Look down the sides of the car eye level, almost on your knees, left side, right side.Stand back , look at front form low down.
Try and determine if whole car was painted, or just front end, check around windshield rubber to see if paint from masking lines.
See if all doors open and close okay( just remember you are looking at body now, not interior not engine )
I always take a blanket and take a quick look under the rocker panels where fenders come down on both sides, you can also see the floor pans. Then look under the front end are the panels under the front bumper good, is there a lot of over spray
Probably they painted the complete front end if so did they blend doors in.
Now lift hood, does it unlatch correctly, again any overspray, lift frunk carpet up look at metal, was it replaced, look at inner fenders and floor board.
Close hood back down does it latch down correctly.
Now you can do the interior inspections, see if interior wear matches mileage.
Now you are onto engine , any service records, how does it sound.
Now driving how does it feel, take hands of wheel does it track straight, any shacking, do brakes pull straight.
If you are happy and have some notes, do not talk price yet.
You need to decide if you want a PPI, probably will need it, is he open to this, if so do asap, as other people may be looking at it, you don't want to miss a good deal "if it is one"
Do you know anybody that will come along with you that knows something, maybe you are fully knowledgeable about this, I am so there are a lot of us around that know cars inside out and know how to make a cost list out.
Maybe you can take it to his repair shop offer to "pay them" to put it up on the lift and do a full inspection from underside, see if you can talk with mechanic without him around.
Once you have the list you know what it is going costs you once you take title.
Now you are down to price negotiations, how many other people have looked at car, has he had any offers.
Salvage titles, check with your insurance some charge more for insurance, if you have accident some only pay out 65%-70% on value if salvage again. knowing this is important in you negotiations.
Lets say the car is worth low 50K, if it needs nothing take 30% off, max would be $35K, it will need some things, body touch up, interior, service, breaks, tires etc, make the list and try to get for $28-$31K.
If you really like the car, tell him you like, tell him you want it, but you want it to be as good as it can be. Go over the list he may not know all you found out ( on the other hand he may know it, watch his body language)
Going to $37 for me would be to high, at some time in the future you may want and or have to sell it, so you story has to be correct and you do not want to take a bath.
PS I have a salvage 2000 ZM3 that was rebuilt at 17,000 miles, now has 45,000 miles, I had it done and you can not tell, I also have C63 that was hail damage ( salvage) daily driver, my son has a BMW135i salvage, rear qrt and bumper. So they are okay if you know the story and know it has been done correctly.
I also have a 1995 993 black convertible, that is almost done complete engine rebuild, re paint, new interior, new suspension its a good title, also have a 2003 996 Targa.
He has something he wants to sell, you are looking for one to buy, there are plenty of good cars out there, for you this is a driver, not a long term investment. If its good get it at a good price, be prepared to walk away.
Best of luck
First reason to buy a salvage car is that you are getting a really good deal and are going to drive it, you know exactly what is wrong with, know what else it may need and resale should not be on your mind. You want a 993, at a great price and drive the living daylights out of it.
How long ago was the accident, get a car report see where car it was, how many owners, there should still be some service records.
If the car was fairly new when damaged the owner may have had a good insurance and basically said I do not want this car back as its damaged, it could have been stolen and they paid out, then they have to salvage it. Different states, different insurance companies do this differently.
What ever the reason was "it was" the key is did a good body shop repair it. Good shops have good "frame machines" any car is rebuildable with right machine and good guys.
One of the most important thing is to visit with the owner, see what he knows, is he a good guy and is he telling you the truth as far as he knows it.
Why is he selling?
What is the story, all cars have a story, get the fax report before you go and be prepared. When he bought it did he get a PPI, has he had it serviced?
How long ago was it repaired, how long has this owner had it.
Make sure you have a pad, take notes, make sure the seller knows you want to buy a 993 and that you are not worried about the title, but you want to make sure the work has been done to as new specs.
You want to be methodical in the process.
Start with the outside Inspect the car, check the body lines(gaps) run your finger down them , fenders to doors, fender to hood.
"The front bumper to fender fit looks a little wavy it may be photo.
Look down the sides of the car eye level, almost on your knees, left side, right side.Stand back , look at front form low down.
Try and determine if whole car was painted, or just front end, check around windshield rubber to see if paint from masking lines.
See if all doors open and close okay( just remember you are looking at body now, not interior not engine )
I always take a blanket and take a quick look under the rocker panels where fenders come down on both sides, you can also see the floor pans. Then look under the front end are the panels under the front bumper good, is there a lot of over spray
Probably they painted the complete front end if so did they blend doors in.
Now lift hood, does it unlatch correctly, again any overspray, lift frunk carpet up look at metal, was it replaced, look at inner fenders and floor board.
Close hood back down does it latch down correctly.
Now you can do the interior inspections, see if interior wear matches mileage.
Now you are onto engine , any service records, how does it sound.
Now driving how does it feel, take hands of wheel does it track straight, any shacking, do brakes pull straight.
If you are happy and have some notes, do not talk price yet.
You need to decide if you want a PPI, probably will need it, is he open to this, if so do asap, as other people may be looking at it, you don't want to miss a good deal "if it is one"
Do you know anybody that will come along with you that knows something, maybe you are fully knowledgeable about this, I am so there are a lot of us around that know cars inside out and know how to make a cost list out.
Maybe you can take it to his repair shop offer to "pay them" to put it up on the lift and do a full inspection from underside, see if you can talk with mechanic without him around.
Once you have the list you know what it is going costs you once you take title.
Now you are down to price negotiations, how many other people have looked at car, has he had any offers.
Salvage titles, check with your insurance some charge more for insurance, if you have accident some only pay out 65%-70% on value if salvage again. knowing this is important in you negotiations.
Lets say the car is worth low 50K, if it needs nothing take 30% off, max would be $35K, it will need some things, body touch up, interior, service, breaks, tires etc, make the list and try to get for $28-$31K.
If you really like the car, tell him you like, tell him you want it, but you want it to be as good as it can be. Go over the list he may not know all you found out ( on the other hand he may know it, watch his body language)
Going to $37 for me would be to high, at some time in the future you may want and or have to sell it, so you story has to be correct and you do not want to take a bath.
PS I have a salvage 2000 ZM3 that was rebuilt at 17,000 miles, now has 45,000 miles, I had it done and you can not tell, I also have C63 that was hail damage ( salvage) daily driver, my son has a BMW135i salvage, rear qrt and bumper. So they are okay if you know the story and know it has been done correctly.
I also have a 1995 993 black convertible, that is almost done complete engine rebuild, re paint, new interior, new suspension its a good title, also have a 2003 996 Targa.
He has something he wants to sell, you are looking for one to buy, there are plenty of good cars out there, for you this is a driver, not a long term investment. If its good get it at a good price, be prepared to walk away.
Best of luck
06-14-2018, 11:29 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Based on both the upper and lower dash being full leather and the color, that appears to be a rubicon grey interior. It is ultra rare, my cab has it and it is by far my favorite interior color on a 993. If you check under the hood it should say VR for the interior code. Can't really say if you should buy it or not but that interior color would certainly push me closer to buying. I've only seen 3-4 other rubicon grey 993's with the rest of them being highly optioned turbos or turbo s models.
you're making me kick myself (again) for passing on a silver / rubicon 993 Turbo from a local friend a few years ago........................
06-14-2018, 11:32 AM
#29
Rennlist Member