Mark Rankin

I just picked up my 1996 C2 after having Racing Dynamics springs put on with the original shocks (or at least the shocks that the car had on it when I bought it). The shocks are Monroe. I don't think that's original. Anyway, the ride was lowered about 1.5 - 2 inches all around and the ride suffered in comfort by about 10%. The handling difference is immeasurable. Body roll is down significantly, steering response is up as is my confidence approaching turns.

I don't use my car as a track car and was looking for a compromise between a stability and a comfortable ride. Amazingly, I think I found it.

I'd like to hear some of your comments concerning the good and the bad of the setup I happened into.

Best of luck with your setup!

Mark

GrantG

Mark - the 993 did come with Monroes. You may want to look at replacing them before 35k total miles on your car (if you're not there yet). I thought mine were fine until I replaced with Bilsteins. Now I know they weren't fine! The OEM Monroe's are notorious for short life...

Edward

Deano,
(sorry, this is going to be long )

I've labored over PSS9 vs. others (Bilstein HDs with M030 springs, or with H&R springs, or the H&R complete setup), talked to many, many a folk for opinions, driven/sat in a few cars with different setups, and my personal conclusion is that the PSS9s are the way to go if your own personal bias is more toward a "sportier" ride than not.

With my butt shock-dyno, I found the PSS9 ride a bit firmer than the rest, but I'm ok with that, others may not be. If you think might be in the latter camp, you owe it to yourself to ride in someone's PSS9-loaded car and decide for yourself. As others have mentioned, the adjustability of PSS9s is an additional benefit, but I found that it's softest setting is still firmer than, say, the M030 spring (again, just my personal non-scientific opinion). So in my mind, the PSS9 adjustability is really more a benefit for those interested in trackdays, or for those really wishing to dial-in their preferred ride setting to suit their personal taste. And as others have mentioned, the price difference is hardly worth considering when you think of the overall cost of the suspension/alignment work that will last for a looong time.

Now for swaybars: the stock 20mm front/17mm rear bars are great if you like understeer and body roll Sure you could go full tilt and get adjustables$$, but in my mind the best middle option is the M030 Sport bars which measure 22mm front and 20mm rear, or 21mm rear if you get the turbo rear bar (get the 21mm; it really makes a difference). These will reduce both the car's body roll and understeer. As a sidenote I did just the M030 bars three years ago with my orig nasty, worn shocks and it was a big improvement! ...not to mention that I got them used, cheap! --easy to find if you look.

But with the PSS9s, the 21mm rear bar, RS height and corner balance, I really am VERY pleased (but damn, been too busy to get to the track yet..ugh! but I digress). So there it is, my long-winded opinion. Hope it helps

Edward

Deano

OK thank's for all the repiles. I'm leaning toward PSS( but I cant figure out the sway bar deal. Now I hear that noises may be a factor? I am a rattle freak. I cant stand clunky noises etc.... Plus, the sway bar deal sounds like another $1000.00 Are the really that beneficial? I am not tracking the car any time soon. I just want a sport ride that feels gripping!
Thank's again

steve g

Deano - we are in the same sitution...do the search...be the search...

As total beginner here - or does gokart racing count ? - when its 28 degrees and theres 2 white Porsches in the garage and I've just shoveled 6 inches of snow off my driveway and sidewalk - its real easy to take a Rennlist break, I digress.

The RS or the TRG adjustable sway bars will suit me for any future street driving and or club racing endeavor - for me - this car is the one that I would put the right $ into without question.

The factory RS swaybars/droplinks/bushings design is what I am most okay with because it is factory designed. ViperBob also offers a specially designed droplink that works (I think) with the TRG swaybars. Our installer should have an opinion about this.

It sure would be beneficial beforehand to see the differences in installation and actual use. I assume that car has to be re aligned when swaybars are adjusted but that settings on the PSS9s can be done at any time.

Thanks everyone !

Martin S.

It was hard for me to believe that that little adjustment **** on the PSS9s could vary the ride that much. I had them set on full stiff when I first had them installed. That is one tough street ride. I then went to the middle setting for the street, nice ride. One of these days I will set them on the softest setting for comparison purposes.

I have the same sway bar set up as Kary with The Racers Group sway bars and rear drop links. They have worked out well...25mm front, 5 way adjustable and 23mm rear, 3 way adjustable.

If I were doing it over again, I would see about getting a ride in various 993 cars set up with the different suspension options.

Re. the Saleen Mustang handling, I am certain it was great. I do wonder how they keep the rear tires in maximum contact with the track, with no negative camber adjustment. The latest Mustangs I believe have independent rear suspension...there negative camber is readily available. Oh well, it seems I digress again.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Deano-Steveg:

If I may add a quick note here about swaybar choices and ride quality,.....

The factory RS/RSR bars are bushed in rubber and are the quietest ones you can buy. They have a welded-on collar that prevents lateral movements that cause noise.

The TRG ones are bushed in urethane and use a wider mount to prevent the lateral movement.

IMHO, the factory bars are best suited for street use and TRG ones are fine for track cars where noise is not an issue.

Martin S.

Well written Steve....I couldn't agree more. The Racers Group bars as mentioned above, are pretty huge, 25mm front and I believe 23mm rear...they work for me, but there is a little noise on the street when turning into certai9n driveways.

viperbob

Steve,

I do not understand what noise are you talking about with the TRG sway bars? I have had them for a year on my car, and they work great. Not a noise, squeek, rattle, or anything which is what you would expect from a first class suspension piece. I have also installed them on numerous cars, and no one has a "noise" with any lateral movement (and I still have the old front bushings) or with modern technology like the harder bushings. I also install all of these with my drop links which are super strong adjustable rod end pieces that greatly simplify installation with no noise and are permanently lubricated. If you are having noise issues with delrin / urethane bushings on your cars, I can suggest some products to help stop that problem.

So for half the price, I like the larger (and that is one of the reasons to buy them in the first place) TRG bars. So a bigger bar, stiffer bushings, no noise, and less expensive. I can't see a downside.

Am I missing something Steve?

Martin - Did the place that installed your sway bars use proper grease for the bushings? If so, what type? I find that a lot of shops use the wrong products to deal with this and then the customers do wind up with noise essentially from improper installation.

Randy M

Bob, I have the TRG bars on my car with the original bushes that they came with over a year ago. The front bar makes clunking sounds when driving around parking lots and general low speed manuevers over small bumps etc. I bought the new bushings from TRG but have not yet put them on. They are supposed to cure the irritating noises. When I first purchased my car it had the original trg drop links in the rear as well. One was broken and have since replaced it with RS drop links.

viperbob

Randy,

I do not promote any rear drop link. They are all less than marginal in my opinion. That is why I only sell my own drop links to my customers. They won't break, they are adjustable (easier to install and make sway bar adjustments), and they are just darn nice looking...

The new bushings should stop your issues with the front of your car. They space the positioning collar past the frame which is what caused the noise in the past. I have used these for a while now, and they work fine, again when installed properly.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Bob:

I cannot address why you have never experienced any noises on your car. There are FAR too many factors here.

I can only tell you that we have installed and "fixed") a good number of these (over 30 sets) and every one made noise. It was caused by the locating collars not staying tight permitting the bar to move laterally and hit the underside of the car. In some cases, the bushings made noise.

I guess I can only say that its one of the benefits of being in this business for a long time. We see and experience many many things like this that cannot be seen with a small example of cars or installations. I do not base my observations on one or two occurrances; rather I offer my opinions and experiences based on several years and many many cars.

I have seen the new TRG bushing blocks and they are a big improvement over what they previously used. Since these still retain the hard urethane bushings, I still think the factory rubber-bushed RS bars are better solution for street cars.


Lastly and most importantly,.....

Noise issues are very very subjective and all people do not hear things the same way and to the same degree. Mufflers, camberplates, monoballs, are just a few cases-in-point. Some folks think these things like these make too much noise, and some folks think they are fine. Ride quality assessments are another example.

Having many components to select from allows everyone to make choices and all I do is offer the benefits of some long-term experiences that few people in the trade have.

LOL,..To each his own,....

viperbob

Steve,

I have installed over a dozen sets of TRG bars in the past 2 months, and except for one set that the alignment shop saw fit to adjust themselves, there have been zero issues. All my customers are street drivers, with some track, or potential for track usage. That is the way I set them up, and that is the way I adjust my own car. I will never install something on someones car that I do not test on my own car. I am a Posrche owner and driver, and will always be one. I also drive and instruct for the Porsche Club (as well as others) on the track.

I agree with you 100% that people need to be able to choose. But please give people a fair assessment of the products. You say you have seen the latest revision from TRG bushings, which means that you or your preferred installation shop have not installed a set in the past 2+ months since they sent you a sample of the update. I have, many times. The long standing experience of installations doesn't work if you have not done them recently with the current set of products.

Deano

It looks like I'm leaning toward the conservative, less aggressive approach. similar to the Post from Mark (above). Cost effective, beneficial & a lot better than stock. I'm thinking
springs only...... maybe shocks.
Suppliers & Manufacturers reccomended (please)
also, any good shops in Chicago area?
cost's ??? (install & parts)

Thanks again,
Deano

Martin S.

Deano writes above re. contemplated suspension mods, he wants them to be "Cost effective, beneficial & a lot better than stock. I'm thinking springs only...... maybe shocks."

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but with the 993 suspension, it doesn't work that way. The problem with tearing into the 993 suspension, unless you do it yourself, it is lots of labor, figure 8 to 12 hours @ X per hour. This is a job you don't want to do too many times. Throwing on a set of H&R or Eibach springs to lower the car, and not changing out the struts and shocks may prove to be short sighted. You are still going to spend for 8+ hours of labor because the suspension has to be torn apart to install the springs, and the car will need to be re-aligned.

The other point to address, suspension systems are just that, systems. It has been written ad nauseum, take a systems approach. Install matched componets on the car. Considering that a 993 car costs about $30,000 to $40,000, not cheap for a used car, put the best quality parts into your investment. Select parts that fit your application.

Experts on the Board such as Viken, have had great luck with Bilstein HD struts and shocks and M030 RoW springs, or M030 springs. By the time you buy the Bilstein Struts and Shocks as well as the appropriate springs, you are getting close to the cost of a Bilstein PSS 9 set up that includes springs...you may need to purchase sway bars...they can be cheap. Lots of Rennlisters, myself included, swear by the PSS9s.

Changing out the suspension is not going to be cheap if you do it correctly. Your wallet is going to be about $4,000 lighter...sorry, but that be the facts as I have learned them.

And the worst sin, is doing the job 2 or three times, which seems to be my approach. I started with adjustable spring perches for the front to drop the front of the car..the cost of the perches + the labor.

Stage 2: Next, I ripped that out and went to M030 RoW and M030 RoW sway bars. That was OK but an opportunity came along to get some PSS9s used, at a great price...not that great but excellent.

Stage 3: Out comes the M030 RoW set up, sold for chup change, and on to the PSS 9s, TRG sway bars and ERP monoballs...I know from experience that it is best to do it right the first time.