Took delivery on a 96 C2 Cab from a FL dealer (noted to be the largest volume Porsche dealer ) last week.

Had purchased for $40K with 49K miles, had a cross town dealer do a PPI which revealed some trim issues but nothing major, was assured this was an accident free clean example.

Had lots of fun for about 48 hours. Car pushed a bit. But otherwise fast, tight, good clutch, tranny, etc. There were lots of trim issues. A couple of bad door dings and a 1x2 inch area of verticle cracks in center of rear bumper that you couldn't see in photos nor from farther than 5 feet away.

Took it last Friday to Dallas for my post-purchase inspection.

Surprise. Car had been hit in rear end. Bumper had been replaced and there was clear coat overspray on rear light bezel. Bumper had then taken another hit. A left rear fender bolt was missing. Left rear tow rod was bent and alignment was way out of whack.

Car was otherwise relatively sound. Cracked ignition wires. A cracked oil line. A bad rear AC blower. Dead AM radio. Missing tool kit. Did I mention LOTS of trim issues. I was struggling over what to do. It is my first Porsche and no six year old car is going to be perfect, right?

Thanks to Rennlister Paul Lux I was able to sort some of this out. Advised against accepting a car with an undisclosed accident.

I contacted dealer and to their credit they took car back (I had a 7 day send back period agreed on) and they waived my shipping costs and the restocking cost I would normally have been charged to just return it no questions asked.

Sales person played ignorant to the end about the accident. A bit hard for me to believe that they had the car for as long as they did and didn't know what Porsche dealer in Dallas discovered in 45 minutes.

The happy ending is I am only out for 2 PPIs and learned a good lesson without much more than wounded pride.

Back on the hunt and will definately be flying to see the next car and drive it home before doing the deal. I appreciate too that it sounds like a lot of Rennlisters are willing to help take a look at a car pre-purchase.

Just thought I would humble myself and throw this out there in case it helps anyone. I had really thought the sight-unseen thing was going to work out on this one...
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Since it is still in the garage (looks quite pretty there actually) I will continue to sign as...

 

Did you buy the car from Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach? They claim to be the largest Porsche dealer in the US.

Who did your pre-purchase inspection, Helen Keller? I can't believe they missed so much! I'd try to get my $$$ back from a PPI that missed those items.

 

glad to hear that you got this sorted out w/out major hassle. Who did the PPI?

Next time, if the car is here, close to Miami Beach (Champion is close enough), let me know, if I'm free, I can take a look at it & some really close up digital photos (&e-mail them to you).
If after that, you're still interested, fly & see and hopefully get a good one!

Happy 'hunting'!

 

It was Champion that sold the car to me...while I am VERY disappointed...I guess I hate to flame them too much since they are taking the car back.

The cross town dealer PPI was by Braman Porsche(spelling?). To their credit, they noted most all of the minor mechanical issues (picked up the error message on the rear AC blower, found the cracked ignition wires, missed the radio though) minus the cracked oil line, listed 90% of the trim issues but missed the rear end stuff completely.

Again, a lesson well learned. Will try to get a truly independent or cross state line dealer PPI next time?

Mike

 

Mike,

You are very fortunate - it couldn't have worked out better for you. You should be praising Champion for the way they handled this situation and jumping up and down for joy. You have no idea - you got off this one *really* easy.

 

JC in NY:

Fair enough...I appreciate that I got out of this one relatively unscathed. Lost a month of search time and a little cash, but learned a good lesson.

I will say that I thought I had planned it pretty well in protecting myself for a sight-unseen purchase. In the end, it did work out as well as possible for this situation.

By the way, in posting, I really wasnt wanting this to seem like I was just ripping this dealer. I am concerned that I was deceived, but in the end my goal was just to say, "Hey...I did the sight-unseen thing relatively protected and this is how it went...file away for future purchases".

I had heard good things about Champion, and from their perspective...if you believe all that they told me, they maintain to this day that they knew nothing about the issues that were found on the inspection of the vehicle after it got to me. I sincerely hope that is true.

Yet, how realistic is it that an hour inspection in Dallas showed something that major they didn't know about in having the car for months. Who knows?

In the end, I am not naive.

Perhaps the question is...IF IN FACT THEY KNEW (I would love to give them the benefit of the doubt) is it their ethical responsibility to disclose the accident or is it just my right to try to find it? Should it take being confronted with this in order for them to do the right thing?

While I would personally not buy from this dealer again, I am not saying you all shouldn't. I would be careful...

 

All things considered, I would say you did OK. Glad to hear the dealer actually stood behind the car (notwithstanding it sounds like they misrepresented the car).
I generally buy new cars (my '97C4S was). However, your story reminds me why I do not buy cars I do not see. I recognize this limits me to a radius from where I live, but I do not want to go through what you could have (had the seller been a pain). I guess in the end I would pay up for a car close to me. (Obviously sometimes that can not be done.)
Thanks for sharing your experience. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

One thing to remember. Most dealerships have union mechanics. Being a former Snap-on dealer I can tell you that union techs waste an enormous amount of time. They are not very thourough w/ anything that they do. All they are concerned about is what time break or lunch time is. They usually dont meet the person who's car they are working on either. Going to a good independent shop is the best way to go imo. You meet the person that will work on your car, you can relay your concerns directly. This makes it personal and the tech who works on your car usually works on your w/ more care and responsibility. Afterall they dont have the union to bail them out.

 

Think about it..... You spent over 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS and didn't look at the car? I would never do that. An airline ticket is mice-nutz compared to the value of the car.

When I found my previous 993TT, I had the PPI done and had a couple of other people look at the car. Once I was convinced that the car was in great shape, I STILL flew down and looked at it. There is no way that I would buy a car without personally looking at it.

Rick

 

I admit I made a mistake. There has been recent discussion on this board about whether sight-unseen purchases are ever a good idea. I still think in some situations, it might work out.

I spent 40K and didn't look at the car only because I knew...for a price...$400 each way shipping plus $500...that if it wasn't the car that was represented to me, I could send it back.

My time in what I do for a living was worth that to me.

Still, looking back, the hassle factor ended up being HUGE...it wasn't the price of the ticket that was the issue. It was the time.

In the end, while I cannot go running around the country looking at every car (that is what friends on Rennlist are for ), it will be worth it to fly out and make sure the next one is the one I really want before the deal is done.

All of your points are well taken.

 

Yeah, I would only fly out and inspect the car after friends on Rennslist have looked at it and the initial PPI is completed. If everyone raved about the car, you might have a live one there.

It's not easy buying one long distance. And unfortunately, you got stung on this one. Thank God the dealership will take it back as it could have been a nightmare. I know of several outfits that would never take a car back, no matter what you did.

Good luck!!

Rick
<a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>

 

If you are buying a used Porsche, it is not always possible (for me) to see the car in person...If you are cosmetic nitpicker, you probably need to shop at home.As it was pointed out above, the alternative is to buy new.Even then, I've seen new Porsches with defects and or flaws.

I have bought a number of Porsches "sight unseen", both new and used. As to the latter,I am more concerned about the mechanics, structure damage and past service than cosmetic issues....I try to cover myself with getting a Porsche certified car with the one year warranty...the undisclosed cosmetic flaws have always been there.

Sales people are not mechanics or concours judges...less so if you are from out of town...

I am sorry for your wasted time and money...there is really no excuse for missing the mechanical flaws or prior accident damage...I agree you were lucky to avoid a hassle, but this was your first Porsche....As buyers we need to remind ourselves that if we are buying on price limits, we need to have realistic expectations....you just don't get a $60,000 Porsche for $40,000....

Good Luck and Keep Looking!!!!

PS. Folks here are happy to help