GratefulJED

Guys - what am I up against? I realize I could go just buy a turbo, but I want to explore just getting an engine and stuffing it into my existing car. I realize I will upgrade brakes and suspension. 3.8 kit looks way too expensive for the bang. Any way I could do it and NOT use a turbo tail? I love the C2S tail. Call me crazy - but my kids DID ask what I wanted from Santa!! Besides, I've got this new tranny, clutch and flywheel sitting in a crate in my garage and I am very patient....TIA, call me Very GratefulJED.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

JED:

Just to play Devil's Advocate with you,......

Do you really want to take a nice C2S and turn it into a "Frankenstein" by doing such a conversion?

I'd really examine the costs and valuations of such a thing and compare that to the aquistion and value of a good TT.

The few converted cars I've seen are only worth the sum of their parts and thats a big loss to absorb.

GratefulJED

Steve,

I rather prefer "wolf in sheeps clothing"! If it were done right, which it would be or not done at all, then it would be an awesome one off automobile. Don't you agree? The 3.8 seems to make less sense to me, cost wise and performance wise, and the valuation has no bearing since I am driving a Porsche! So....can it be done?

Cy

Hey Grateful,

Personally, I'm not sure how much of a "wolf in sheeps clothing" you're going to achieve out of this conversion for the following reasons:

First, the majority of the population don't know anything about Porsche's and/or 993s, let alone what's normally aspirated or turbo charged. They basically know Porsche's are sports cars and probably fast.

Second, of those that know a little about Porsches, many mistakenly think all 993s are turbos because of the flared rear, esp. on the C2S and C4S, and the wing, even the stock retractable wing. I've had many people ask if my narrow body is turbo even when the wing is down.

Third, those that know enough about Porsches and 993s will take very little time to discern the fact, through sound, performance, etc., that you're not running a normally aspirated motor in your C2S.

Further, this isn't like de-badging a high-end BMW or Merc to lower the profile . . . it's an expensive, impractical (to most people) sports car that is defined by it's very presence and not the badges.

Additionally, I think many people would be very hesitant to purchase the car from you with this work done. And those that would purchase it probably wouldn't pay much more than a normal C2S. Unless of course, you found just the right person with money to throw around. Even if you keep the stock motor, the car will always have a story . . . "Well, there's XX,XXX miles on the odo, however, the motor only has XX,XXX miles. Why? Oh, because I pulled the stock motor and was running a turbo motor in it . . . I just recently put all the stock parts in to sell it."

This conversion would be *very* expensive . . . I don't care to speculate on cost when there's people here must more capable to do so.

I agree with Steve . . . you've got a beautiful car that's the last year of the 993s. If you really want a turbo, keep this one stock or sell it onto someone else and do it the right way by purchasing a turbo.

Also, if I remember correctly, some time ago someone was considering taking a turbo and removing the large intercooler and replacing it with smaller units in the rear fenders. I'm assuming that with this conversion you could put on a normally aspirated wing. If you went this route, you'd probably spend less money, have a car that could more easily be converted back to stock, and it likely wouldn't loose much, if anything, in value converted back to stock or sold to the right person with the original parts.

Again, just my opinion . . . of course, do what you want . . . and if you do it, post plenty of pics!

Regards,

Carrera GT

I've thought about the "twin turbo in a C2S" idea and done some research. The key player will be a custom fabrication shop with computer modeling and access to a decent CNC mill ... and experience.
One of the supercharger outfits recently said that doing a twin-turbo conversion cost about $25K as a one-off project.

I'd think of experience in engine building as a major issue.

Keeping the 911 silhouette isn't impossible, but it will require a 959-like approach -- one i/c per bank, buried in the wheel wells with air-flow from Turbo S / 959 inlets in the flanks and an larger throttle body etc.

The ECU programming will need GIAC or the like.

I'd start with a dead cheap C2S -- sell your existing car for bank roll.

Who's going to build a strong tranny and help with engine knowledge? I'd be looking at Jerry Woods or someone with serious race background.

SRP has stuff for suspension upgrades to help a 993 handle.

Overall, a great project. What's your plan so far?

GratefulJED

My Plan so far, well, I have the dead cheap C2S that I will never get rid of, a g50/21 gearbox, LWF and clutch package, and a dream.... What else do I need?? Thanks for all of your great responses!

Phil

JD,
Go for it! I now of at least one person who has done it...."the smooth talking portfolio manager from TX"

Ray Calvo

GratefulJED, do an archive search. Believe concensus is it ain't worth the trouble - or the prob. high 5-figure $$$$ cost.

Sell your bomb and buy a real 993TT.

Carrera GT

There's no question it can be done and the result will be solid.

I have a C4S with a GT2 spec crate engine in it. The C4S is an easier task, with suspension and rear drive shafts, it's all but a Turbo. I've tweaked the engine with a GIAC ECU to circa 500hp and that's ample.

The "buy a real Turbo" comment misses the point. The AWD and the weight are not desireable to everyone. To illustrate the differences, it's easy; drive a C2S, then a C4S, then a Turbo. There's no debating that the Turbo is in another world, it's a legitimate super car then and now, but it's also heavier, it lacks the feel and precision of the C2S and it feels more like the C4S, with an "assisted" nature to the handling and the controls. This makes the 993 feel removed from the 911 of the early 70's. The C2S revisits the wild power of the first Turbo but harnesses the engine with manageable power delivery and sublime dynamics. I wish Porsche had made about, oh, 5000 more 993 GT2's.

A C2S with a twin turbo engine would be revisiting the late 70's or the late 80's but with the "ultimate" (to some) suspension and chassis of the wide body 993. In the words of Mr Powers, "I dig it, baby."

CP

GratefulJED

Here's your answer here:

http://www.flat-6.net/view.php?model...F+BTR&tab=info

Everything you described in your thread, and then some.

CP

Carrera GT

CP -- The Ruf BTR was a benchmark in its day, but progress has been made through the intervening decade. 420hp is now the domain of Audi commuter sedans and American muscle cars.

I think a C2S project would target 500+ as the first step and does not need the brand profit overhead of respected names like Ruf, Gemballa or Techart et al.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

JD:

This conversion is quite possible to do but it can get expensive depending on the placement of the IC's and the custom plumbing necessary to install, duct and connect everything.

I can do the GIAC software, no problem.

I'd need far more details before I'd venture an educated guess about costs.

Phil

Kim,
You have the much $$ in your upstairs parts room! 2 sets of sport seats +++

Surj-993C2S

JZ Machtech in the UK did a similar one off for a client - they stuffed a 993TT in a Kylie 993C2 body. The result (they reckoned) was faster than a GT2!!

Sounds like a great idea to me!!

Norske

Hi JD,

If you want more info on putting turbos on your C2S, look at Todd Knighton's web site www.protomotive.com. He has lots of info, plus prices. You can email him or talk to him on the phone, he is helpful and easy to get along with.

Personally, I love my "Frankenstein" so I guess you can call me Igor.

You would have to get rid of your beloved tail though. I know of no intercooler that will fit under the stock C2/4S tail.

My car screams, yet is very easy to drive around town. My wife loves to drive it, much better than my earlier turbos.

good luck,

Steve Daib