samurai_k

Hey suspension experts, I think I found the right 993 for me in my backyard. Going for a test drive tomorrow to decide to make an offer. My only reservation is that it has 108K on an original M033 suspension, no updates to the struts, bushings, etc... I normally wrench my cars for fun so was thinking of eventually refreshing the suspension myself. However, since she is already at a p-car tuner shop, I have the option get some extra work done before I close the deal. Not sure what to refresh/update so would like your opinion on this matter.

I recently drove a 993 equipped with PSS10s, elephant reconditioned control arms, and M030 ARBs. Had a blast driving her, but haven't driven enough 993s to know the difference between different suspension setups.

I am looking for a more "lively" 993 for my canyon carving commute to the east bay, as well as fun for occasional DE events. I don't mind going to a RS + 10mm height which I think is just low enough without dealing with driveway rash everywhere I go.

Given all of above what do you recommend?

1. Bilstein HD strut refresh
2. 1 + sport bushing update
3. Bilstein PSS10 update
4. 3 + sport bushing update
5. 4 + M030 ARB update

Of the above options which will require a suspension re-alignment?

Thanks

Tlaloc75

I'd recommend option 5. That's what I did over the past winter and I couldn't be happier. For street driving, I don't think you can do much better.

I did sport/RS on every bushing location, front and rear, including sub frames. Also replaced all ball joints - which meant new control arms in the rear. Be sure to replace your top mounts when replacing the shocks, they are probably shot. Same for your tie-rods, get those replaced with solid tie-rods.

Its a big job and you are going to spend some money but its so very worth it.

Good luck!

Tlaloc75

As for alignment. Yes you will need one with any of the options you choose. So plan on getting it all done in one shot and then corner balance and align.

I'm happy to help, if you have questions along the way - please let me know.

samurai_k

Thank you! Very helpful. So assuming I go with option five, I am sure it will take me some time to get all of the parts and like you said do it in a big bang and get it done once.

Given that and the she has original suspension that is likely needing a refresh as our roads here in the bay area are not that smooth, how much do you think I should knock off of the asking price? She is supposed to drive smooth, no vibrations or abnormal noises... never tracked or in an accident, etc... just old, but well taken care of.

Tlaloc75

Hard to say without knowing more. What's the asking price?

If its a c2 manual coupe with 108k miles in otherwise good, original condition I'd suggest reasonable pricing is around 45k. Budget an additional 5-10k to sort out the suspension, depending on which option you go with and how much of the work you do yourself.

samurai_k

Asking is $45K so you nailed it.

-No accidents
-2 Owners, last one since 01, owned by an older gent which was his garage babe during his ownership so never tracked
-Maintenance records dating back to 01
-Bone stock
-@88K major overhaul with the following
1- top end rebuild w/ piston rings
2- new clutch
3. resealed valve covers and chain box
4. SAI port cleaning
-Recent major service with new plugs, belts, battery, alternator, wiring harness replacement, fluids replacement
5. Its Blue! CupII wheels, LSD, M033 suspension

Tlaloc75

Sounds like a fair price to me. At this age, suspension refresh is expected. If it was already done, I'd say the car would be worth 50k+.

Seems like a well cared for car - good luck!

mpruden

I have a 145mi car that's lived it's entire life in the East Bay or Sacramento areas. The climate is relatively good to cars with its few freeze/thaw cycles and little precipitation. Nothing beats brand new rubber, but the mild climate might keep some of your original suspension rubber working great for a bit longer than those with cars in harsher climates.

I regularly check my suspension rubber with a pry bar (it sees a lot of track time) and aside from front control arms and rear tow links, mine is still rocking the original stock stuff. The only point being that you might not absolutely need to replace all of your bushings right now unless any of them have obviously failed.

Your usage model matches mine before I started doing 20 track days a year. Here's what worked great for me back then. Again, just relaying my experience. Nothing wrong with going all in with new rubber, PSS10s, etc, but you may have a much cheaper option.

1) Keep your springs. M033 is the "comfort spring" but it's still perfectly fine for a DE. I mean, it's a Porsche spring, not a Buick spring.
2) Replace your stock shocks for HDs
3) Replace your front control arm bushings.
4) Go to Roger Krause Racing for an alignment
5) Enjoy your new 993!

Tlaloc75

I agree with mpruden that the full refresh is not necessary to drive and enjoy the car. I will also add that I had my bushings checked several times by several different shops who are experts on these cars. I also checked them myself. They always checked out. But when I pulled the parts and inspected them off the car it was clear they were degraded. The bushings all had spider-line cracks through them. Some of the ball joints would flop around under their own weight. The rear top mounts were cracked right through. This is on a car that spent its entire life in az and socal.

My experience showed me that its very hard to do in-car inspection of the suspension parts. Assume that at 20+ years old and over 100k miles the rubber and ball joints are all past their useful life. Yes some of the parts could soldier on, but once you start into the suspension, why not get it all done and start from mile-0 once again?

The biggest reason people do the front and not the rear is due to expense, not because it shouldn't be done. Myself included in that group - I did the front first and hoped that was all I would need. Once I did the rear I could finally feel what I had been missing.

I recently let another Rennlister drive my car since he is still on his old rear bushings (fronts are new) and in the process of collecting parts for a refresh. The difference was night and day and he had nothing but good things to say about how precise my car felt, how well it handled and how safe and secure it felt.

So yes, you can enjoy a 993 with old suspension parts, but you aren't getting the full experience of what these cars have to offer.

Take all of this FWIW and YMMV

samurai_k

Thanks guys. The car sold. Almost got it. The search continues...

Kika

I have M030 springs/Bilstein HD shocks with RoW Turbo ARBs.

Highly recommend.

I am also on 18" MY02s, heigo strut brace, pinned tie rods, and WEVO MMs.

Car is a load of fun to drive.

pp000830

I have the H&R Sport coil-over kit 29954-1 on my car that originally had the M030. Works great for a street driven car. Has threaded aluminum barrels that can be adjusted to or well below the height for stock alignment. I believe the struts themselves are made by Bilstein for H&R. If you are not in the need of adjustable dampening they may be a good choice. Clearly a less expensive option. Also, they can be rebuilt in the future if needed at substantial savings over new.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...lover&_sacat=0

Here is H&R's info:
http://www.hrsprings.com/application...s/31/546/1996/

vincer77

A lot of guys here used to rave about the Koni FSD with M033.

I am on Bilstein HDs and M030, and a bit harsh of a ride for me. But love the stance.

nine9six

Probably a combination of variables...

But most likely due to the M030 springs being "Sport" and the M033 springs being "Comfort"

Not sure how the Koni FSD's are valved in comparison to the Bilstein HD's.

Tlaloc75

I found HDs a little harsh too. I think its because they lack the more modern digressive valuing that you find in PSS10 and other shock options.