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2020 NEXT GENERATION 992 SPY PICS & RELEASE

 
Old 10-31-2017, 03:25 AM
  #691  
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Originally Posted by Dude174 View Post
Interesting as my experience has been opposite. My friends (non Porsche people) have all liked the .2 GTS better. I guess sound is subjective. They all said my old one (14 S) sounded like a VW. I don't think it's safe to assume that EVERYONE hates the .2 sound.

Best exhaust sound is GT car or a domestic V8 IMO
Thats broadly my experience e.g. most people think the .2 sounds pretty good or actually don't know what to think about the exhaust sound at all e.g. non - car people. In fact they usually put their fingers in their ears.

Also, Porsche are well aware the Carrera series appeals to a somewhat different market to say the GT cars - hence the option of PSE. A lot of buyers want a little spice as opposed to the full chilli.

At sprint series events "sound" is not a hot topic other than where there may be the perception of a "ringer" engine, even then thats rare. Most common topics are tire Ts and Ps, lap times and optimal racing lines. Honestly

Personally, I think the Soul exhaust sounds great (exactly like a flat with turbo spool added to the mix). Will I be getting one - no, I'm deaf enough as it is. . But I'm sure plenty will.

There is no doubt the 992 will be tweaked across the board, will there be tweaks to the exhaust to produce a different sound - I would say so but also the outcome will be model dependant. For example, its quite clear the 991.2 GTS sounds more raucous than the .2 S - its also quite clear the sound of my .2 S with X51 sounds like the .2 GTS.

So the circle is closed - all is normal in Porsche land with each new model receiving incremental tweaks that make them a little "better" with each iteration.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:30 AM
  #692  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
That sounds craptastic. Making it louder doesn’t make it better. The angry vacuum cleaner brigade rides again.
Craptastic is right here:



LOL what a joke. That's the engine sound they are putting on a pedestal. Delusional.

Enough with trying to convince the forum your 991.1's are great because of the engine note. Nobody buying a 992 cares. Plus the cars are so much faster they're too far ahead to hear you anyway.

Go into that NA appreciation thread and get aroused by talking about engine notes if that's what you use the forum for.

Back to the 992.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:32 AM
  #693  
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Originally Posted by basic666 View Post
omg here's KA again, trying REALLY REALLY hard to justify his purchase. Been lurking on this forum a while but had to register and comment on his comments.

Just FYI as context, he used to argue on and on on the macan forums - about how his decision to not option the roof rails made his macan more aerodynamic than the ones that did have roof rails... So ya, to say the least, take whatever he says with a grain of salt. Whatever he buys and options will always be the "best".
I literally lol'd.

How insecure do you have to be to argue about roof rails that can be easily installed or uninstalled?

Can we just give the 991.1 people their own section already where they can sit around sending each other exhaust sound clips?
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:20 AM
  #694  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
There is literally nothing wrong with the sounds of the 991.2. It is completely subjective.

The 991.1 sounds boring and the 3.4 is basically an angry beehive.

Nothing quite like the sound of turbos spooling

The 991.2 is not all bark and no bite

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaXEDNlA44l/
Yeah that sounds weak, especially for a cat bypass.

And did you try and compare a stock 3.4 to a cat bypass 3.0? Lol. That proves the larger point, entirely.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:13 AM
  #695  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
I literally lol'd.

How insecure do you have to be to argue about roof rails that can be easily installed or uninstalled?

Can we just give the 991.1 people their own section already where they can sit around sending each other exhaust sound clips?
Arguing about ďaeroĒ from roof rails is funny indeed. Though to note, the Macan rails canít really be installed or removed.

I think the .1 and .2 should have different sections too, as the two cars having entirely different poweplants would save guy who thinks 3.0 running lower compression, making less natural power whilst getting its power advantage out of added turbo muffle power sounds ďbetter,Ē from splashing his own massive wealth (ď.1 owners are poorĒ) / choice (ďmy car is better than your doo doo mobile, so there!Ē) insecurities across a thread who was past the sound discussion.

So if it bothers you so much to see a discussion on why your car doesnít sound up to snuff in the auditory department to certain members, why troll what became a dormant subject back up? Is it that perhaps you need to convince someone otherwise? [this is that part where you look in a mirror]

Fellow audiophiles: If you donít like hearing about why some of us donít like how the turbo cars sound, hereís a tip: Donít drag the subject out. Engaging beckons discussion. And by all means, engage if youíd like, but understand youíre contributing to the cycle and turn into a reflection of what you criticize. Itís kind of working against your cause to harp about someone repeating themselves when you literally continuously engage them away from what wouldíve been one free standing post.

Until then, weíll keep hoping or dreaming our complaints turn into action by Porsche to release a new N/A car (on top of the GT3ís) that doesnít get bid up to well over half a million dollars.

Finally, like it or not but exhaust discussion is relevant to the 992. That little element of sound is what let the market speak loudly enough to raise .1 prices as soon as .2ís came out. As well as why .2ís have declined in sales while Porsche sales as a whole are up.

The .2 is a great car, and the 992 will be even better. But Porsche wants buyers. And if they want to exceed .1 sales, getting the sound right to those of us who think it currently isnít, will pay dividends. Thatís the reality of the situation.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:02 AM
  #696  
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Finally, like it or not but exhaust discussion is relevant to the 992. That little element of sound is what let the market speak loudly enough to raise .1 prices as soon as .2ís came out. As well as why .2ís have declined in sales while Porsche sales as a whole are up.




The .2 is a great car, and the 992 will be even better. But Porsche wants buyers. And if they want to exceed .1 sales, getting the sound right to those of us who think it currently isnít, will pay dividends. Thatís the reality of the situation.



Agreed.




Everyone can say what they want but the proof is in the data. I'm shocked at how .1's are holding their value which is really unheard of for a high production car like this. Clearly there is more to it than a subjective preference on sound but I don't want to further this debate as it has clearly spun way out of control.




This thread is about the 992 and there is nothing wrong with voicing opinions on the shortcoming of a previous generation and hoping they are resolved in the following generation.




I know I'm excited to see the 992's official reveal and get a chance to do a test drive in a year or two. I'll reserve my judgment until then but if the 992 checks a few of the boxes that were missing when I was .2 shopping, I will be a buyer.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:30 AM
  #697  
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Originally Posted by phow View Post
Agreed.




Everyone can say what they want but the proof is in the data. I'm shocked at how .1's are holding their value which is really unheard of for a high production car like this. Clearly there is more to it than a subjective preference on sound but I don't want to further this debate as it has clearly spun way out of control.




This thread is about the 992 and there is nothing wrong with voicing opinions on the shortcoming of a previous generation and hoping they are resolved in the following generation.




I know I'm excited to see the 992's official reveal and get a chance to do a test drive in a year or two. I'll reserve my judgment until then but if the 992 checks a few of the boxes that were missing when I was .2 shopping, I will be a buyer.
I agree. If we take personal insults and vendettas out, the .1 rising values (probably the first time Iíve ever seen this happen so immediately, itís that unheard of) and .2 sales decline if nothing else point to the power of ďsound.Ē We race a car mostly never. We hear it constantly. Itís a visceral sensation sent straight to our adrenaline vein. And as I recently watched Nick Murray too state in a review of his .2 and a .1, itís also the powerband and the way it engages you. Some are more engaged by torque and brute power, some (as he stated he also still prefers) get more of a rush from a linearly climbing powerband, even if it makes less power. I find it rewards you to learn and master it more so. Itís a matter of character imo. But Iíll save getting into that for when that topic comes up.

Nobody really needs to get bent. You canít always have EVERYTHING. The 991.2 is a better fundamental car. The .1.... well....

The 992? Not much more can we say based on what data we have. But if weíre taking bets, generating that raspy, raw mechanical growl for those of us who crave it will be tough.

Last edited by K-A; 10-31-2017 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:15 AM
  #698  
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Arguing about “aero” from roof rails is funny indeed. Though to note, the Macan rails can’t really be installed or removed.

I think the .1 and .2 should have different sections too, as the two cars having entirely different poweplants would save guy who thinks 3.0 running lower compression, making less natural power whilst getting its power advantage out of added turbo muffle power sounds “better,” from splashing his own massive wealth (“.1 owners are poor”) / choice (“my car is better than your doo doo mobile, so there!”) insecurities across a thread who was past the sound discussion.

So if it bothers you so much to see a discussion on why your car doesn’t sound up to snuff in the auditory department to certain members, why troll what became a dormant subject back up? Is it that perhaps you need to convince someone otherwise? [this is that part where you look in a mirror]

Fellow audiophiles: If you don’t like hearing about why some of us don’t like how the turbo cars sound, here’s a tip: Don’t drag the subject out. Engaging beckons discussion. And by all means, engage if you’d like, but understand you’re contributing to the cycle and turn into a reflection of what you criticize. It’s kind of working against your cause to harp about someone repeating themselves when you literally continuously engage them away from what would’ve been one free standing post.

Until then, we’ll keep hoping or dreaming our complaints turn into action by Porsche to release a new N/A car (on top of the GT3’s) that doesn’t get bid up to well over half a million dollars.

Finally, like it or not but exhaust discussion is relevant to the 992. That little element of sound is what let the market speak loudly enough to raise .1 prices as soon as .2’s came out. As well as why .2’s have declined in sales while Porsche sales as a whole are up.

The .2 is a great car, and the 992 will be even better. But Porsche wants buyers. And if they want to exceed .1 sales, getting the sound right to those of us who think it currently isn’t, will pay dividends. That’s the reality of the situation.
The 991.1 and 991.2 should absolutely have separate sections because insecure 991.1 owners continue to go into 991.2 and now 992 threads with their exhaust derangement system.

First of all, the 991.1 doesn't even sound as good as you want to claim it does. My M3 revving to 8500 rpm sounds better. A GT350 Mustang with its flat-plane crank Voodoo V8 sounds better. The 991.1 flat-6 isn't even that great of a sounding motor and I prefer the turbo sound of the 991.2.

You're literally ranting like a lunatic about an exhaust which you can change or get the PSE for. Even then, I'll take another 100 lb-ft of torque with tuning potential and modern performance credentials over some perceived subjective aural advantage. The objective performance qualities can not be argued and I think that is the real problem. You know your vehicle is inferior in every measurable way so you want to convince yourself you have something special when all you really have is a motor Porsche threw in a Cayman because it's a parts bin special. It's not a GT3. It never was. It never will be.

As for sales figures the American market is SUV centric. 911 models have declined vs. SUV's in the Porsche lineup since SUV's were introduced. The trend isn't reversing. Porsche producing more Macans and Cayennes doesn't mean the 911 is worse. It means they sell more Macans and Cayennes which somehow are popular despite their turbo powerplants.

The 991.1 is the past, outdated, and embarrassingly slow. Nobody goes to the track and tells everyone to slow down to listen to your exhaust. 991.1's are a performance joke. This is a sports car designed to be driven, not a record to be listened to.

997 values tanked by the way. So will 991.1 values. The 991.1 is basically just a 997 with some more power anyway. If the 997 isn't holding value why would the 991.1? Plus who cares? You aren't going to make any money on your car. It's not a 911 R. It's just a mass produced 911 that isn't even quick with a mass produced engine that never received a single engineering award unlike the 991.2 which is revered for its engineering achievement and awarded as such.

By the way, turbocharged 911's are held in the highest esteem and hold the highest secondary market values. I wonder why? Probably because they are designed for people who like to drive instead of babies who whine on forums.

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Old 10-31-2017, 07:26 AM
  #699  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
The 991.1 and 991.2 should absolutely have separate sections because insecure 991.1 owners continue to go into 991.2 and now 992 threads with their exhaust derangement system.

First of all, the 991.1 doesn't even sound as good as you want to claim it does. My M3 revving to 8500 rpm sounds better. A GT350 Mustang with its Voodoo flat-plane crank V8 sounds better. The 991.1 flat-6 isn't even that great of a sounding motor and I prefer the turbo sound of the 991.2.

You're literally ranting like a lunatic about an exhaust which you can change or get the PSE for. Even then, I'll take another 100 lb-ft of torque with tuning potential and modern performance credentials over some perceived subjective aural advantage. The objective performance qualities can not be argued and I think that is the real problem. You know your vehicle is inferior in every measurable way so you want to convince yourself you have something special when all you really have is a motor Porsche threw in a Cayman because it's a parts bin special. It's not a GT3. It never was. It never will be.

As for sales figures the American market is SUV centric. 911 models have declined vs. SUV's in the Porsche lineup since SUV's were introduced. The trend isn't reversing. Porsche producing more Macans and Cayennes doesn't mean the 911 is worse. It means they sell more Macans and Cayennes which somehow are popular despite their turbo powerplants.

The 991.1 is the past, outdated, and embarrassingly slow. Nobody goes to the track and tells everyone to slow down to listen to your exhaust. 991.1's are a performance joke. This is a sports car designed to be driven, not a record to be listened to.

997 values tanked by the way. So will 991.1 values. The 991.1 is basically just a 997 with some more power anyway. If the 997 isn't holding value why would the 991.1? Plus who cares? You aren't going to make any money on your car. It's not a 911 R. It's just a mass produced 911 that isn't even quick with a mass produced engine that never received a single engineering award unlike the 991.2 which is revered for its engineering achievement and awarded as such.

By the way, turbocharged 911's are held in the highest esteem and hold the highest secondary market values. I wonder why? Probably because they are designed for people who like to drive instead of babies who whine on forums.

I didnít read any of that of nonsical verbal diarrhea. But I will say that you sure seem secure for someone who talks so staunchly about insecurities.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:29 AM
  #700  
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I didn’t read any of that of nonsical verbal diarrhea. But I will say that you sure seem secure for someone who talks so staunchly about insecurities.
Nonsensical is the word you're looking for but if you knew how to spell it and how to use it you would apply it your own 991.1 exhaust posts in 991.2 or 992 threads.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:30 AM
  #701  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
The 991.1 and 991.2 should absolutely have separate sections because insecure 991.1 owners continue to go into 991.2 and now 992 threads with their exhaust derangement system.

First of all, the 991.1 doesn't even sound as good as you want to claim it does. My M3 revving to 8500 rpm sounds better. A GT350 Mustang with its Voodoo flat-plane crank V8 sounds better. The 991.1 flat-6 isn't even that great of a sounding motor and I prefer the turbo sound of the 991.2.

...

The 991.1 is the past, outdated, and embarrassingly slow. Nobody goes to the track and tells everyone to slow down to listen to your exhaust. 991.1's are a performance joke. This is a sports car designed to be driven, not a record to be listened to.

997 values tanked by the way. So will 991.1 values. The 991.1 is basically just a 997 with some more power anyway. If the 997 isn't holding value why would the 991.1? Plus who cares? You aren't going to make any money on your car. It's not a 911 R. It's just a mass produced 911 that isn't even quick with a mass produced engine that never received a single engineering award unlike the 991.2 which is revered for its engineering achievement and awarded as such.....

WOW
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:32 AM
  #702  
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Originally Posted by THPorsche View Post
WOW
WOW is right

Yellow, 991.2. Red, 991.1.

But muh engine noise!



Now let's get back to the 992 which will just take 991.2 9A2 3.0 performance even further.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:35 AM
  #703  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
Nonsensical is the word you're looking for but if you knew how to spell it and how to use it you would apply it your own 991.1 exhaust posts in 991.2 or 992 threads.
No, it was a purposeful misspell. Consider it a reflection of the coherency of what I was quoting.

Didnít you say something about focusing on the 992? Or do you want to keep convincing yourself as to how ďcontentĒ you are with purchasing your .2 over a .1.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:37 AM
  #704  
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Originally Posted by stout View Post
.Induction and mufflers can have a huge impact. Fiat's little Abarth sounds pretty brilliant, too...thanks to no muffler at all in the U.S. (It should sound awful, but doesn't.)
Even more remarkable since it's a puny 1.4 liter four cyl, and given how hard it is to make any very small engine sound good!
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:40 AM
  #705  
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
No, it was a purposeful misspell. Consider it a reflection of the coherency of what I was quoting.

Didn’t you say something about focusing on the 992? Or do you want to keep convincing yourself as to how “content” you are with purchasing your .2 over a .1.
I'm sure it was. You say you didn't read it but then you say it is a reflection of cohesion? How do you determine cohesion without reading? Which is it? I don't expect solid logic from you so don't worry about it.

The 992 is going to be very similar to the 991.2 namely in the area of the powerplant. Porsche is likely to just up the boost through software. This also means turbo upgrades will carry over.

What can you do through software to dramatically increase the performance of your car which it so desperately needs? Oh, nothing. No wonder you sit on the forum talking about your exhaust note because nobody including yourself is interested in driving your car.
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