Hi Folks,

If like me, you've been disappointed with the audio quality from the base audio system in your 992, you've likely come across this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1364...l#post19741118 . I know I was eagerly following that thread waiting for development for a while. Recently, I happened to reach out to 12v Nick over e-mail and the timing just happened to be that he was looking for an adventurous DIYer to validate their product offering before moving it forward to production. The timing seemed fortuitous so I quickly volunteered.

What I've signed up to do is to take a preproduction version (although I think it's pretty much close to final?) and install it in my personal vehicle, a 2023 911 Carrera T. I plan on providing my honest feedback both on the install process and the resulting audio quality improvements. I will be doing this out in the open on rennlist via this thread. I am not being paid for this review, nor was I given the product for free, I've fully paid for this package up front. While I do intend on allowing Nick a chance to address things if I find anything negative (isn't that the whole point of having an early DIYer try and find any last minute issues?), otherwise I plan on sharing my progress and thoughts throughout this thread. What I get out of doing this: early access to the product, direct support from Nick throughout the install, and a fun project to brag about

This will be mostly like a live thread, and I will be posting updates as I make progress. While I don't think this install is so complex that it'll span several days, I am a dad with two daughters, a 2-year old and a 3-month old, and a busy full-time job. Finding time to just hack away in a garage for a few hours at a time is currently rare. Maybe I'll get lucky and my infant will sleep through the night, maybe not, but I intend on plowing forward whenever I can find a moment to spare.

Really looking forward to digging in and getting this install going. Feel free to ask questions and participate!

To get things started, I received the package a few days ago. Things are starting off strong as my first impressions are that it looks like a lot of thought and care went into packaging:

 

For those that want to follow along on the steps/instructions I'm utilizing this well produced install video direct from Musicar:
It took me about 30 minutes total to replace the tweeters on both driver and passenger side. Musicar included a plastic trim removal tool that I ended up using. I already own some plastic trim removal tools that I got off amazon a few years ago, but they're getting a bit beat up, and this new one seemed to be nicer quality(?) I'm not actually sure how to objectively judge a plastic trim tool, but I did like using the new one more.

Here are the tweeters loosely in place. This was just to test the fitment, and I also did a quick listen test to make sure the tweeters were all functioning. I utilized the OEM wiring, but I'm aware for the full install, I need to run new tweeter wires:


I know I probably could've spent more time and effort on cleaning up the tabs, but no one is ever going to see them, I'm not too bothered by it.

In instruction video was great, I didn't need to deviate and it was clear to me what needed to be done. I really appreciated the tip to use controlled force when using pliers to remove the metal clip. It definitely took a little oomph to pop that guy off, and without that warning could've lead to some scratches when the clip did finally give.

One suggestion/idea from me. Maybe my snips are of bad quality, but the plastic tabs are surprising hard. What I mean by this is that cutting into the plastic isn't a smooth snip, more of a violent pop. I tried to emulate the technique of holding a thumb over the tab when snipping, and the plastic tab ended up flying somewhere. I actually don't know where it is, hopefully on my garage floor somewhere, but it could totally be somewhere in the cabin like on the carpet somewhere, or hopefully not in some crevice or vent. After that happened, I tried a new technique where I placed a piece of electrical tape over the tab that I was snipping. This way, when the tab snapped, it wouldn't go flying and would stay adhered to the electrical tape. Here is a picture of the result to hopefully give you an idea of what I'm talking about:


The way the tweeters are mounted feel really well done. They feel more solid/substantial to the touch than they would appear. I had previously experienced with a cheaper 3d printed solution to mount tweeters that felt wobbly, flimsy, and kind of felt slapped together. That solution also utilized U Clips to fix that mount into place, and I honestly really disliked dealing with that. I don't want to bad mouth the other solution too much, but it came from the groupbuy that was removed from this forum. The price point of that solution was much lower, so I can't complain too much. But glad to see that the price in the Musicar package improves the quality of all aspects, even down to the mounting solution.

Finally, I gave a listen to 3 songs after the tweeters were in place. These are actually the 4th tweeter I've experienced in this car. The first being the stock OEM/ASK tweeters, the second being the Feelart tweeters from the groupbuy, third being Audiofrog GB10's, and these are the fourth, I believe they are Morel MT450's. I don't want to spend too much time here, since I will be going all the way through to stage 3, but I did want to share some impressions comparing the four.

• OEM/ASK: obviously pretty terrible, otherwise I wouldn't have gone down this path. I was so turned off by the stock sound system, it was actively taking away from my enjoyment of the car. Not 100% logical, but there was that feeling of, if Porsche went so cheap on this, what else are they cheaping out on?
• The Feelart tweeters were my first upgrade, and they came out of that "forbidden" groupbuy. The groupbuy replaced tweeters, mids, and woofers, similar to the Musicar package, although no amp. After these upgrades, I noticed some additional base, a lot more detail, but still a thin/empty feeling soundstage. Worse, the highs were actually a bit too harsh, on the verge of painful to listen to. I could dial down the treble to remove the harshness, but along with it went the details. I couldn't find a happy balance.
• The Audiofrog GB10's, these tweeters cost almost as much as the entire Feelart upgrade kit. I shared my above feedback about the Feelart tweeters in a discussion thread on another forum, and a member suggested that the harshness was due to the cheap tweeters, and a simple upgrade would be to get nicer tweeters, such as the Audiofrogs. The audiofrogs did solve the harshness/detail balance. So they were clearly a step up, but it still didn't solve from the thin/empty soundstage. However, at this point, things were pretty livable in terms of audio quality, but I wanted to see how much better things could get.
• Musicar/Morel: So off the bat, since I've only done the tweeters, I still have the Feelart mids and woofers in the doors. My immediate impression is that it is similar to the Audiofrogs, but I do like these better. No issues with detail or harshness. The sound still isn't full, but I don't expect that until the other speakers and amps are installed yet. But I think we're off to a good start, and I'm excited to see how the rest of this package develops

 

Very cool to see a thread on this. We're probably a full year behind when we planned to release this system, but I'm glad we're finally in this last phase.

Good luck finding the time for the rest of the install, and thank you for sharing the process in such detail — Looking forward to following along!

 

Is there a list of all the components included in the kit and a price?

 

If you look at the beginning of this video you can see all the components that come with the kit (at least whats comes with the stage 3 package, there might be various options/stages offered by Musicar, but I'd wait until Nick is ready to make an official announcement).

If you're looking more for specific part numbers, I never got that from them directly, but I did find this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/macan/13...macan-gts.html and based on that if I'm not mistaken, they're mostly the same:
- Morel of Israel Elate Carbon MT450
- Morel of Israel Elate Carbon MM3
- Morel of Israel Elate Carbon MW9

Regards to pricing, I think you'll need to wait until the kit is available to order. I don't want to steal Nick/Musicar's thunder by spilling the beans too early. But sounds like they'll have something to share soon.

 

Was able to get a good bit done last night. Will share a larger post later tonight, kids are being a bit of handful this morning and afternoon

 

Having had Musicar install the Stage 3 pkg in my GTS a couple of months back, I am certain you will be very pleased w/ the results. The difference btwn the Bose and Musicar Stage 3 is apples to oranges. The Bose system was accepatable at best and sounded compressed, muddy, flat and fatiguing to listen to at higher volumes. The Stage 3 pkg opens up the sound stage noticeably w/ tighter, cleaner base and clean & detailed mids & highs. The clarity/details are there at low volume levels, so not necessary to turn up the volume altho’ it sounds fantastic a higher volumes as well. Note, I have high flow cats and exhaust installed and even w/ the elevated volumes w/ valves open, the difference is quite noticeable. To my ears the music sounds neutral w/o any boosting/processing and very easy to listen to for extended periods. Streaming from a quality source (ie: Qobuz) makes a big difference as well even if you’re limited to 48kHz. The addition of the Stage 3 pkg certainly made the drive back from Portland to the SF bay area, much more enjoyable.

 

Thank you for sharing your feedback on the Musicar stage 3! I have my fingers crossed that if I don't hit any roadblocks, I optimistically will be able to finish the kit late tonight, and be able to give a good on the road listen on the way to work tomorrow morning. I'm certain things will be improved, but part of it is just going to be expectation management. With the feelart kit, the first initial impressions reviews I read were all fairly positive, and so I built up unrealistic expectations. While waiting for my kit to arrive, in my mind I was laughing, "haha Burmester sound quality for only a fraction of the price! What a genius am I for optioning the base audio and doing the upgrade myself!" Unfortunately, that was too good to be true.

Although, you pointing it out being easy to listen to, sounding clean at both low and high volumes, and having a fuller sound is definitely encouraging

 

So last night was able to get a couple of hours in the garage to make some good progress. I did end up sacrificing a little bit of sleep, so a bit on the tired side today. Totally worth it though, I love getting my hands dirty. My day job is as a software engineer, so I spend my days sitting and staring at a screen a lot. Getting a chance to just use my hands and wrench some stuff is one of my major sources of joy (and its why I end up with so many car mods and house projects).

At this point, I've successfully removed all the parts of the old Feelart kit, including the sound deadening that came with that kit. This was a major worry of mine before ordering this kit. Nick took a look at the product specification of the stuff that came with the Feelart kit, and he and another industry expert suspected that the old stuff wasn't up to snuff, especially compared to the SoundShield that comes with the Musicar kit. I was hoping I could get away with just installing the Musicar speakers and leaving the old sound deadening, especially because I was really concerned about the removal of the old stuff. The good news, is that removing the stuff ended up mostly being a non issue. I'd say about 90% of the stuff came off without much fuss. The last 10% took some extra elbow grease to clean up. All in all, I probably spent about an extra hour to remove the old sound deadening. It took me about 3 hours to do both doors. Here are some pictures of how it all went:

This is the doorskin with Feelart mid and dodomat sound deadening:


After stripping off the sound deadening, but before removal of the feelart mid, should look similar to stock (but if you really zoom in you can see some staining and boogers from the old stuff)


And heres the final result, Musicar/Morel mids in place with the precut SoundShield deadening in place:


I mentioned that 90% of it came out without problems, heres kind of what I was dealing with in the other 10%:


And after hitting with a scraper, it doesn't quite look good as new, but good enough:


And finally, after I appleid the Musicar/SoundShield stuff on top, you can't even tell there was anything there before:



So some thoughts: Sound deadening stuff is not the most fun thing to deal with. Its sticky and imprecise. However, having the precut stuff helps a lot! The dodomat I had before, hopefully it looks okay, but those were all handcut by myself, and took so much extra time, effort, and stress. There was still some annoyances dealing with the precut pieces, but its certainly better than having to cut your own from a roll.

In terms of comparing the SoundShield to dodomat, the SoundShield stuff is definitely thicker, heavier, and seem more premium. Although unsure how that maps to audible differences yet. Some other notes, yes the dodomat seemed mostly easy to remove, I suspect the SoundShield stuff might be a bit more...sticky. An example of the thickness, with the dodomat, installing the door card back on, it felt almost no different from stock (pretty easy IMO). With the SoundShield, I was a little surprised by how much harder it was to get back into place (this was called out in the install video). It wasn't impossible, but it did take a good bit more finagling and pushing fairly hard to get everything back into place.

With all the speakers installed, but no amp yet, I did decide to power up and give a few test listens. Impressions are...so far, no major change. These speakers might be better, but as Musicar has indicated, the limiting factor is really the lack of a proper amp. I'm excited for the next step (hopefully tonight!) to get the amp in. I've installed amps on previous cars before, and they're always usually where the real step up happens.

I've got about 3-4 Hrs of garage time into this project so far. I suspect getting the amp and cleaning everything up will take a similar amount of time.

 

Have to admit that, the Stage 3 upgrade was not the main reason I drove my car up to Portland. I had a stealth radar pkg and sound deadening (Resonix 911 pkg) installed and since they were going to have the interior opened up, I opted to add the stage 3 upgrade. Wasn’t expecting a major sound upgrade, but the final result has been impressive. Have not heard the Burmester pkg in a 911, but have driven a loaner Mercedes C class w/ Burmester audio. While it definitely sounded better than the Bose in my 911, I thought the highs were shrill and harsh. The Mercedes is a much quieter interior than the a GTS, even w/ the sound deadening, but to my ears, the stage 3, in my 911, *definitely* sounds better and more natural than the Mercedes C class Burmester.

Good luck in finishing your install and looking forward to hearing your impressions w/ the final result.

 

Was able to finish the full install, buttoned everything back up, cleaned up the mess I made in the garage, and then give a few minutes of listening before calling it a night. End-to-end, I think this about 8 hrs of wrench time to get everything done (spread across Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. Super happy this didn't need to interfere with my workweek). I think if I were to tackle this project again, could maybe do it a few hours faster. There were a few challenging bits, but I had full confidence I could get everything done by myself without needing to call in professionals. But thoroughly enjoyed taking apart and putting back together the various pieces.

I was only able to give a listen from the drivers seat with the car off sitting in my garage. The little ones are asleep, and the exhaust would wake them up. However, of the top things I was looking for, was fuller sound and wider soundstage, and my first impressions make me believe that goal is met.

One thing that jumped out at me was the overall sound system is boosted by quite a bit. Volume at 13 on this amp sounds to me like it was set at 19 on the stock amp. There is one minor annoyance now, I hope theres a solution, or at least becomes less noticeable over time. Because the entire system is now boosted, the PCM touchscreen click/pop sound whenever you make a selection is irritatingly loud. Does anyone know of a way to decrease the system volume, touch volume, or can I disable the touch/click confirmation? Maybe this will be a non issue when driving, but sitting in the garage with the engine off, late at night, it felt aggressively loud.

Tomorrow, I'll be taking the 911 to work, I don't have the longest commute, but I'll be able to get about 20 miles of seat time in, excited to see how it all sounds on the move. I'll give my first impressions on this thread after work.

One minor win: On day 1 I mentioned I had lost a plastic tab from snipping the tweeter mount. While wiring everything up and with my face to the carpet, I found the little nugget! So relieved it didn't get into a vent or crevice (the fear was this could be a hard to find rattle):


Some additional feedback on the install process:

• The install video mentions the ground nut for the amp power should be 10mm. In my case my ground nut was a 13mm. Wonder if there is variation year-to-year? Based on spec?
• The video calls out the bolts for the seat could be e-torx or triple square. In my case they were 10mm triple square aka XZN M10. I got lucky and had my brother-in-law bring over a set of various sizes. I had almost ordered a 9mm, based on this thread I found:https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...-for-sure.html
• I was a little worried that managing the additional wires would be a pain, I've had other installs where things get overstuffed and its hard to get things back together. This wasn't the case here, felt like there was a lot of buffer.
• Threading the wire harness from passenger to driver side, I was concerned when I first saw the amount of space in the gap. Looking at the size of the head of the harness, I thought there was no way it would fit. However, it wasn't explicitly called out in the video, but I noticed the harness being pulled a bit downwards, not just across. This made me realize that it wasn't a straightshot, but you sort of go up in, then up and over into a cavity you can't directly see, then back down and out on the other side. I was able to get the cable across on the first shot without any drama once I realized this.
• I've never seen the weird metal disc clipholders before, they're the ones that hold the foam down and need to be removed. The video just sort of shows how you can use force with a pry tool to remove. I was able to use that method on the first of three, but came up with a different technique on the other two. I noticed there was a small hole on the discs, and the discs have prongs/teeth that seem to hold onto the threads. I realized you can just use a pick and spin counterclockwise, and the disc will back out. I personally preferred this way:
• 

 

Had a few minutes of downtime between meetings today, so thought I would write up my thoughts on my morning commute/first impression with driving with this audio solution.

First, I mentioned that I wanted a larger soundstage. The sound feels a lot more immersive than before. When I say soundstage, I mean how immersive the music sounds, like in a bubble of sound, vs tiny speakers pointed at you. I'd put this in the top 90% of solutions I've heard. Other solutions at this level or better usually have many more speakers involved. The fact that this level of immersion is accomplished with such few speakers is really impressive!

Besides feeling "full", there is more separation in the music. One of the fun things I noticed was one of the tracks I was listening to, the singers voice was very "centered". Despite not having a dedicated center speaker, the voice felt like it was coming from the middle/the PCM screen. In fact, from the driver's seat, it almost feels like I am offset, and the voice was coming just slightly to my right. It's a fun sensation, I'm not sure I would like all my songs to feel this way though. I'm impressed that the audio package makes it now able to hear that, although I wouldn't necessarily call it enjoyable, just neat.

I have subscriptions to both apple music and spotify. One of the advantages of apple music is it has lossless tracks. Before this upgrade, there was no difference between using these two services. However, I now clearly prefer the lossless tracks on apple music. I mostly keep spotify around because my family prefers it. It's great that I now have the fidelity to distinguish between the two. Although maybe my framing is off, but to me, its not that lossless on apple music sounds better, it feels more like the lossy audio in spotify sounds worse. I know its basically the same thing, but thats how I feel about it.

I love the range in the "usable" volume there is now! Before the upgrade, I felt like if the volume was too low, there was too much loss in detail. Too loud, and there is too much unpleasant distortion. Before there was a narrow band for a sweet spot. With the stage 3 upgrade, I feel like I can go much quieter in the volume and still be able to enjoy the music. On the louder end, I've already gone up to a volume that is the maximum for my comfort level, and I can't detect any distortion/unpleasantness.

On the topic of being not too harsh. Theres a popular song right now "Who" - Jimin. I wouldn't say I particularly like this song, but it seems to come up frequently, and is a good example of what I mean by harsh/unpleasant to listen to. On the base audio, this song wasn't unpleasant, but it was muddy and lacking in detail. After the feelart upgrade, I could hear a lot more detail in the song, but some of the voice and audio effects were too shrill and bordering on painful to listen to. Dialing down the treble made it tolerable again, but brought it back to muddy/lack of detail territory. I was able to listen to this song today and enjoy the details without feeling fatigued listening to it. It's still not my favorite song, but at least I can "enjoy" it now.

The weather was also decently warm today, so I drove a bit with windows down and music blasting. It was a really enjoyable ride. Other's might criticize the point of putting in hifi audio into a car like a 911 T, citing things like the exhaust/engine/road noise "defeats" the audio quality. I totally disagree, I am not trying to build a audiophile studio in the car. I do enjoy the sound of the exhaust/engine/road noise, but that's not all that I want to listen to all the time. I am just adding a sound track, that IMO compliments all those other sounds. Even with all the other noises, you can still hear and appreciate crisp and nice sounding audio.

Anyways, those were just my first impressions, maybe I am still in the honeymoon phase. I plan on listening to a variety of music as this system breaks in. I'll be back to post some additional thoughts after I get more miles in. Happy to answer any questions people may have about the install or my other thoughts.

 

Awesome write up. Appreciate you taking the time to write and offer pointers.

 

Very cool. Having a solid center vocal means we got the time alignment correct. That was a difficult task given the amount of factory phase EQ that we had to defeat on the input side. If the vocal is in the center of the dash(or just to the left of center as is my personal preference) then the phase of the system is mostly aligned, meaning that your speakers aren't fighting each other. it also means that everything else should be placed respectively where it belongs on the soundstage. If you do have Spotify, this is a fun track to experience that effect: Yosi Horikawa — Wandering

I feel like a 911 T with the windows down has to be decently loud — you think it'd be enough for a cab or a targa in that respect?

Thanks for sharing the whole process. Glad it seems to be working out thus far!

 

Never been in either the cab or targa, so not sure how loud it is in those. My slightly uninformed opinion is I think that it'll work fine. My other fun car is a bronco, and I'll drive around time to time with the door and roof off. I also have aftermarket speakers, amp/dsp, as well added a subwoofer, and yeah it's pretty loud, but the upgraded sound system still comes through.

I do also have a set of these air foils: which according to the video takes off -7 peak DBs. They help a lot. The video shows it on a 991.1, but 992 versions of these will be available soon, its another product that I just happened to get early/preproduction access to