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PDCC also adds weight. I saw a thread back when pdcc was first introduced and it was said to add 24kg to the car. The 992’s now have a lighter weight pdcc than before but my guess is it adds at least 15 pounds to the car. Also, ventilated seats add 12 lbs (6 lbs each) from an older thread versus non ventilated seats
Rear seats are more like 25lb. Maybe 30lb if you also take out the seat belts.
rears seats are 18 lbs per a post on the 991 forum. An owner removed them himself and weighed all the stuff (did not weight seat belts) and it was 18 lbs.
These aren’t lightweight cars. Fretting over this stuff is truly silly. The average 992 Carrera build is right around 3500lbs.
If your concern is maximum performance, driver education and track days are going to have a far greater impact than whether or not you specify a full leather interior. You will also realize that a sunroof, an entirely useful thing that opens up the interior of the car, is not going to ruin your handling.
You want to focus on weight that really impacts your performance? Get to the gym.
compared to modern cars, 911’s ARE lightweight. Add a passenger to your car on a track and you immediately will be a second or two slower. These weight options matter in the corners on track even in these weight of cars. In straight line speed, it doesn’t matter much.
Looking at is from the other way, my 992 with no options and a full tank weighs exactly 3,351lbs. I know this because I weighed it on proper calibrated scales.
>> The real question is, does it matter to you?
Exactly. Experience drivers may notice differences at the limit in the right setting, but day to day the gains are 'in the noise'.
My guess is that the majority (probably the vast majority) of the folks here that tell you that they are good enough drivers that they can notice the difference are FOS or deluding themselves. If they aren't, perhaps they bought the wrong car. The 911 shines at many, many things. But being a lightweight car is not an area where it has an edge on the competition.
My guess is that the majority (probably the vast majority) of the folks here that tell you that they are good enough drivers that they can notice the difference are FOS or deluding themselves. If they aren't, perhaps they bought the wrong car. The 911 shines at many, many things. But being a lightweight car is not an area where it has an edge on the competition.
My guess is that the majority of folks here that tell you that weight doesn't make a difference are people who use their cars to commute to work, get groceries, take leisurely drives on the weekend and buy an S or GTS because a base doesn't have enough power, lol. There's nothing wrong with that and of course weight is not going to make any difference if you use the car for such purposes. A loaded, heavy base will be "fast" and fun driven around the track a handful of times a year. But some of us bought the car exclusively to drive and to do so near the limit. For people like me, it's not about the power but visceral feel. I bought a T with the base engine because I don't need S or GTS power for my use. What I do need and want is a tossable car. Reduced weight can be felt when you accelerate out of corners, when you brake, and most importantly, when you turn. My 992 is currently at 3,200lbs and will soon be at 3,100lbs but already feels a universe apart from a PDK, FAL, RAS, sunroof, AWD 992 when driven hard. And no, I didn't buy the wrong car. I've been buying 911s for 25 years and you're wrong. Considering displacement and price point, a 992 is one of, if not the lightest modern cars you can buy. My 992 weighs around the same as a 993 from three decades ago, which is some magical trickery and I don't know any other car that can make that claim. I don't think you're FOS but it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.
Have a GTS on order, lock date a couple of weeks out. Appreciate the customization of these cars is really personal preference and there aren't really any bad choices. In my case I seem to have somewhat inadvertently built a turbo/turbo S light, leaning away from GTS race-tex and lightweight package. Noting that, curious if anyone thinks the individual, or a collection of weight adding options really makes any difference to daily spirited street driving, and beyond that, the occasional amateur jaunt on a track. Read threads on most of these options individually, but curious on driving impressions of the collective:
Extended range fuel tank - +6.8 gallons, or ~40lbs excluding extra plastic weight from the extended tank
Sunroof - ~35lbs, worst point for extra weight
FAL - ~15lbs
RAS - hard to discern, but net effect from steering weight less lighter lithium battery ~25lbs
18 way seats - 25lbs?
Ventilated seats - no idea, assume ~15lbs
All the above is +150lbs on a car that with PDK weights 3430lbs, so roughly +4%. I'm going to assume leather over racetex, or extended door/dash leather over plastic is immaterial. So, while adding weight is never ideal, the benefit of adding comfort/desired features likely exceeds any discernable driving impact, and believe with street driving it makes almost no difference. Said another way, the fuel tank itself as >100lb weight swing with us. The lowest weight one can get a GTS from factory to appears to be ~3300 lbs, spec'ing manual and light weight with buckets. That is roughly 260lbs, or 8% lower than GTS with above options. I suspect driving back-to-back this may be somewhat noticeable.
Anyway, welcome thoughts as just debating the real world impact, and also somewhat keen to have even more insulation removed with light weight package (with 18 ways, so not really getting weight out). Thanks.
In my opinion, unless you are in competition against a clock, go for what makes the car nicer for everyday use. For me personally, I've had two cars with sunroofs and a convertible. Times I had sunroofs open or the convertible top down was about 0.1% of the time. So I personally would skip the sunroof. FAL? Do you need it where you live for something you encounter everyday? If not, FAL is just more cost upfront and something else to break in the future = more cost. RAS, if you have to deal with tight parking often, sure. I know it also benefits higher speed use, but I see the main benefit of RAS for low speed parking lots. Another if not needed, then save money and future costs of something breaking down the road. Ventilated seats? If you live in the humid and hot Southeast, heck yeah!
My guess is that the majority (probably the vast majority) of the folks here that tell you that they are good enough drivers that they can notice the difference are FOS or deluding themselves. If they aren't, perhaps they bought the wrong car. The 911 shines at many, many things. But being a lightweight car is not an area where it has an edge on the competition.
What? The reason I bought a 911 is that it remains one of the few (reasonably priced) modern lightweight cars.
At sub 3300 lbs that is mighty impressive for a modern car.
Look at the new M2 - it is something like 3700-3800 lbs.
Thanks for the feedback and perspectives. While adding weight is never a great thing, given 98%+ of my driving will be on the street it really makes little difference. Beyond that, and as noted above, the options add to the overall driving experience for me. Being a numbers person, I had to throw it all into a table. All weights incl PDK, taken from Porsche website. The "GTS Options" one isn't really a fair comparison given any model I select would likely move in a similar direction.
>> given 98%+ of my driving will be on the street it really makes little difference
Yup, you just answered your own question, and what most everyone else has been saying: on the track in the hands of a skilled driver you might be able to notice +/- 100lbs. On the street, never.
My guess is that the majority of folks here that tell you that weight doesn't make a difference are people who use their cars to commute to work, get groceries, take leisurely drives on the weekend and buy an S or GTS because a base doesn't have enough power, lol. There's nothing wrong with that and of course weight is not going to make any difference if you use the car for such purposes. A loaded, heavy base will be "fast" and fun driven around the track a handful of times a year. But some of us bought the car exclusively to drive and to do so near the limit. For people like me, it's not about the power but visceral feel. I bought a T with the base engine because I don't need S or GTS power for my use. What I do need and want is a tossable car. Reduced weight can be felt when you accelerate out of corners, when you brake, and most importantly, when you turn. My 992 is currently at 3,200lbs and will soon be at 3,100lbs but already feels a universe apart from a PDK, FAL, RAS, sunroof, AWD 992 when driven hard. And no, I didn't buy the wrong car. I've been buying 911s for 25 years and you're wrong. Considering displacement and price point, a 992 is one of, if not the lightest modern cars you can buy. My 992 weighs around the same as a 993 from three decades ago, which is some magical trickery and I don't know any other car that can make that claim. I don't think you're FOS but it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about.
I think it's safe to say you're the outlier while the vast majority who claim weight differences matter wouldn't be able notice, which I think is what some are saying in this thread. Heck, even the OP mentioned his car will be used 98%+ of the time on the street with the occasional amateur track day. If that's the case, why worry about weight?
I think it's safe to say you're the outlier while the vast majority who claim weight differences matter wouldn't be able notice, which I think is what some are saying in this thread. Heck, even the OP mentioned his car will be used 98%+ of the time on the street with the occasional amateur track day. If that's the case, why worry about weight?
Yes and no. Yes, because, like I said above, I concur that if it's going to be mostly driven for point a to b purposes, it won't make much difference. No because weight is easier to add than to lose and it does indeed make a noticeable difference, even on a street car. It's like the frog in boiling water effect. You won't notice the weight of the options you've added until or unless you remove weight and then you realize the performance you left on the table. Case in point, I recently swapped wheels on my 4,200lb Macan (daily). The new wheels are about 30lbs lighter and it's unsprung so it feels like ~120 lbs less. I felt the difference immediately but probably by the following day, the new aliveness I had felt had become the new normal and not something I could discern. However, just because I can't feel the difference every time I get in the car, doesn't change the fact that my Macan is now a tad more responsive and agile and that's something I appreciate the odd time I take it out and push it.
If someone goes to the trouble of starting a thread weighing the pros and cons of adding weight as they option their car, I think it's important to take everything into account. The two people making the strongest arguments that weight doesn't matter drive a targa and a cab. Of course they're not going to value or prioritize driving dynamics. And again, nothing wrong with that. I've owned one targa and two cabs when my priorities were different.
I just read in an old UK Porsche mag that the weight difference between the forged 992 exclusive wheels and the flow formed regular is only 4.5kg per set. This seems less than I would have thought. This equates to about a pound less per wheel…..
I just read in an old UK Porsche mag that the weight difference between the forged 992 exclusive wheels and the flow formed regular is only 4.5kg per set. This seems less than I would have thought. This equates to about a pound less per wheel…..
Firstly, 4.5kgs is 9.92lbs, so about 2.5lbs per wheel not 1. Secondly, that sounds low. For reference: The Carrera S wheels are 24.9lbs front and 30.3lbs rear. The RS Spyder Design wheels are 26.3lbs front and 33.2lbs rear.
My forged wheels in OEM sizes are 22.1lbs front and 25.3lbs rear, saving 16lbs over the cast (not flow formed) S wheels.
08-28-2023, 03:46 AM
