dhirm5

So, this Ferrari dealer bit is new. They used to treat people like they were doing them a favor by even looking in their direction. I think they finally figured out that to sell cars, you actually have to be nice to the customer.

I actually was invited to a Ferrari event a few mos back where they let us drive the various offerings while sipping cocktails and listening to a nice band. It was a gorgeous day and a great time. I looked at all the cars, including Roma, which basically disappeared into the background when compared to the F8 / SF90s around it, which I drove. I love the F8 Spider, but don't fit in it, per my earlier post in this thread.

My eyes prefer the 911 to the Roma - which looks like a softened Aston DB11 or something. I'm not a fan at all of this new design direction. They're trying their hand at a less shouty car, but that's not what I'm looking for from a Ferrari. F8 Spider, 812GTS - love (!!) them. But they're too small. And more than I'd like to spend ...

drgek

I have had eight Ferraris, 5 purchased new (355 Spider, 360 Modena, F430 Spider, 599, and Portofino). Just a couple of comments:

Those of you who claim Ferrari dealers have no "markup" game aren't exactly correct. My dealer was always great with me, but most of them will make you buy three used cars at wildly inflated prices to have the privilege of ordering a mid-engine V8 new.
Ferrari dealers look at you like your nuts if you put more than 2000 miles a year on a car. When I sold my Portofino, which had 6300 miles after two years of ownership, the comment made to me was "that's a LOT of miles." By what standard?

I love the Roma and it's a great drive. But I need a droptop. I think I'm too old for the mid-engine V8s.

pman3

@Peter992 – I would not consider California to be "Ferrari for ladies" :P These reliability problems are a serious issue for me (see the "Reliability" section below for more info). Yes, my heart screams "Roma" indeed, but my brain tells me that 991 is a much wiser choice, especially taking into consideration how broken Ferraris are.

@John Mclane – Yup, the software is not keeping up with hardware, sadly. In my opinion, it's because unlike in hardware engineering, we are not mature enough to choose the right software frameworks / paradigms when writing consumer software, such as cars apps. This is a longer discussion though, so I'll skip it for now, until someone would be interested in that. I understand that you consider Roma way more fun to drive at low speed. How about higher speed? Is it keeping up with 991 handling?

@CodyBigdog – I just like both of these cars. If Roma had an open roof option, I'd opt-in for it. But as it does not, I'm just considering both of them

@Targa Tim – Once again thanks for the detailed reply and sharing the insights about the dark Roma. This is what I was expecting - that the dark one without yellow badges screaming "ferrari" around could be kept below too high attention level.

@dadc4s – I'm extremely sorry to hear about your bad F-dealers experience. That sucks. I have a meeting with dealers here next week just to see the car and I'm wondering if I'll share your experience. I hope not!

@boutrosa – If Roma had open-roof option, I'd take it. I just love both cars and my heart loves Roma more, while my brain loves 991 Targa more I'm surprised to hear that Roma doesn't look so good in RL! I need to check it out! I definitely don't want to use the cars as a status thing, that's why I'm always spacing them dark without badges. Unfortunately, I feel that both Roma and Targa will be eye-catchy.

@200mph – I agree 100% with that. I am repeating the same thing to myself for the last days constantly. Also, check out the "Reliability" section below.

@ipse dixit – I'm not sure if F-cars are so reliable as Porsches – check out the "Reliability" section below.

@slc4s – F8 Spyder and similar are way to creamy for me. I'm looking for something not raising so much attention. But I fully understand your love to f8

@Bluehighways

@siberian – oh wow, that's an interesting point of view. Unlike you, I will not modify my cars, I never did and I will never do it. But it's interesting to see the difference in attitude between Porsche and Ferrari regarding custom modifications! Thanks for sharing that! As you have such a deep expertise in car repair / modification, could you also take a look at the "Reliability" section below and tell me what you think about it?

@Steve 96C4S – Oh that's insanely interesting. I need to have a drive in Roma and experience it myself. Thank you so much for sharing that info!


RELIABILITY
To be honest, the more research I did, the more I am considered about the reliability of modern Ferraris, especially Roma:

1. The entertainment system is extremely laggy. If you change the volume, you have to literally wait 2-3 seconds for it to catch up, even if you are doing it with a **** on the steering wheel.
2. Ferrari answer to laggy system is removal of functionality. They recently removed an option to make the navigation full-screen on the digital cluster, the button "view max" on the steering wheel is not doing anything and new cars (since 2 months) do not have the button at all (source: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...12204/page-193).
3. The recent software update removed also navigation view from passenger display and the Ferrari explanation for that is: "To reduce the system's response time still further, and due to the presence of the fullsize central satellite navigation system screen which is clearly visible and can be used by both the passenger and driver, the satellite navigation system repeat on the optional passenger-side display is no longer available". Which is hilarious. (source: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...post-148423593).
4. Users of Ferrari Roma are reporting tons of issues, including no ability to close the doors (because of software error), digital cluster not showing speedometer, or even a car driving back only, because software bug does not allow them to run 1st gear. Some of these issues forced people to leave their brand new cars in the service for a few weeks (source: somewhere in this topic, I am sorry I did not bookmark exactly what page it was: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...12204/page-127).

rk-d

Normally, on a Ferrari, I'd say the UI issues are extraneous to the core mission of a Ferrari. But the Roma is explicitly their take on a Grand Touring car, so it does matter. And laggy UI is one of my biggest pet peeves.

But, all that said, buying a sports car should be a visceral decision. You should have some passion for the car - it's not meant to be a logical decision and not something you can make with a spreadsheet. Which car do you dream about? Personally, I think if you've gone this far down the Ferrari rabbit hole, it's going to be a scratch you're going to need to itch.

drcollie

The most entertaining thread in a long time……I can sum this up in photos for you on a more primitive level.

Ferrari.





Porsche.

pman3

@rk-d "buying a sports car should be a visceral decision. You should have some passion for the car - it's not meant to be a logical decision and not something you can make with a spreadsheet." I know, I know, that's exactly why this thread exist. If that was a purely logical decision, I'd just go with Targa. However, even with passion and not-fully-logical decision, I want my car to be reliable. I want to take my gf and dogs to vacation and drive 3k - 4k km without worrying about the car. This is the situation with my current car, which is of a completely different league (not top-notch BMW) that I made 100k km without literally anything broken and not a single issue so far. I understand that sports cars have more extreme working conditions and thus may break more often, but still, I expect my GT car to be reliable.

@drcollie You just made my day!

shrimp money

@drcollie

If based on those two photos, I’m going with the Porsche because she’s hot and she cooks!

siberian

I was not aware of the above but then again, I don't have one and probably never will, but having said this let's see the other side of the coin.

The PCM in Porsches and some of the decisions they've made are... ok I'll leave it at that. Functionality and stuff that worked and was proven in 1,000s of other cars like the Home Link buttons were placed inside the PCM which in my version (2021) takes 90 seconds to boot before you can use it because the "ambient lighting" module, for example, needs to finish while you're being gassed in your garage is not a badge of honor. Neither are the myriads of other issues that have been mentioned. Summarizing, for me the real time programming was obviously done by summer interns who were discovering batch vs r/t programming. While this is truly annoying and should have been flagged and never modified (as the odometer reset...) it's hoped that it will be addressed. I don't hold out any hope that the Home Link buttons will reappear where God intended them but that the whizz kids will learn multi-threaded coding etc.

Deleting a function just because you can't get it to work, if it's minor why would you care since it doesn't work anyway? Navigation for passenger side? Look out of the window and enjoy the Doppler effect instead of a screen... it's a Ferrari fercryinoutloud. However if it doesn't allow you or interferes with doors opening...

However to sum this up and hopefully this will address some of your concerns. I've always thought (and mentioned of course) that items like the Burmester audio system to be nonsensical.. To me the car is the infotainment system in the same vein as an electric Ferrari is nonsensical to me as if I ever buy one I want to hear that engine scream not The Beatles or Bach. Yes, I want decent navigation (but I'm not paying a subscription since I can use Waze) but not have electronic gizmos taking over my car to the point where stuff doesn't work.

Many choices that have been made in the so called evolution of automobiles are... well what they are and for some of us cause us to long for what was (71 Cuda, 68 Roadrunner, 56/7 Chevy, 67 GTO, 68 Mako Shark...).

As I mentioned I think by now you are at the crossroads. Your heart says right, your mind says left. Choose what is right for you, the biggest regret in life is not choosing wrong but wondering about not having chosen the other.

GL

siberian

PS Definitely agree with the picture selection btw but I can't afford that

German1967

@drcollie I would have never considered a Ferrari but now after the photo comparison, I'd have to say I'd choose the Ferrari...

ipse dixit

Most of what you cite above re: "Reliability" are not actually reliability issues, merely teething problems with implementation of new tech.

Laggy UI is not a reliability issue, especially if that laggy UI is reliably laggy. Which, no doubt, the Ferrari UI most definitely is (heck, it's even worse in the 488/F8/Pista generation).

As to some of the UI functionality, and electronic gremlins (i.e., software errors), these are extant in the 992 911 as well. As if almost on cue, have seen this thread? https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1294...l#post18046047

drcollie

You do realize the hottie in red has a coke habit, which means going to see her dealer constantly to get a fix ...... <g>

Tupper

I dont' know if others here have chimed in with similar thoughts, but mine are:

1. The price difference alone is why I would never consider a Roma vs 911 Targa
2. Because of the above, I would constantly be paranoid about taking my Roma anywhere. Scratches, bumps, bird poop

Really expensive cars end up being garage queens for a reason

dhirm5

That's fine - she's more fun after a couple lines....

AlexCeres

Having seen a Roma in person, I'll say it's definitely more appealing than it looks in photos, and it doesn't go unnoticed around other cars. Whether it matches your taste and purpose is another matter.

dhirm5

Photo from the Ferrari event I was at last year; you can see the Roma neglected next to it's sexier sisters.

Several of the cars were out being driven when I snapped this shot.