992 vs. 991 vs. Quadrifoglio
05-05-2021, 02:32 PM
#31
It sounds like you have a lot of uncommon takes on the 991.1. Might be worth some more seat time to confirm those views, but if you come to the same conclusion probably makes sense to go with the 991 Turbo.
It be worth driving a 992 w/o PDCC for more natural chassis feel. For steering feel, I find the 992 comes alive mainly when pushed hard. For shifting, Sport Plus slams shifts with more drama. I also appreciate the improved front-end turn-in and grip on 992 over the 991. Not sure if you felt that.
It be worth driving a 992 w/o PDCC for more natural chassis feel. For steering feel, I find the 992 comes alive mainly when pushed hard. For shifting, Sport Plus slams shifts with more drama. I also appreciate the improved front-end turn-in and grip on 992 over the 991. Not sure if you felt that.
I think the bigger factor for me was the lighter feeling chassis and additional torque at all revs in the 991 TT - it was closer to what I get with my Quadrifoglio, and exceeds it at the top end. The 4S didn’t feel as zippy at reasonable “around town” speeds, but to 60 mph it was obviously faster than the Quadrifoglio.
05-05-2021, 03:11 PM
#32
this thread is a massive waste of time. idk why i'm still bothering. you putting zf on top is laughable; it is to pdk as a steak-um is to a double eagle rib eye. what you seem to like the most is the exhaust, which clearly tickles you and others in the right place. a good exhaust can do that. there is literally nothing else that puffed up boy racer has on a 911 or the F gen M3/M4. G gen needs to be taken behind the barn because it was born with that horrible grill disease.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/new...a-quadrifoglio
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/new...a-quadrifoglio
05-05-2021, 06:13 PM
#33
They were different trims. The 991 was a TT, the 992 a 4S - that impacts some of the metrics. I can’t fully explain the steering. I was also surprised, but those were my first impressions. The 4S sold, so I can’t confirm, but I believe it had PDCC, whereas the TT does not. So it’s possible the chassis stabilization introduced by PDCC contributed to the difference in steering feel.
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kwikit356 (05-11-2021)
05-05-2021, 06:15 PM
#34
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exlondoner (01-17-2022)
05-05-2021, 06:42 PM
#35
if i still needed four doors, there remains a single best choice - the //m5. as long as that domagoj dukec keeps his filthy paws off it.
05-05-2021, 09:53 PM
#36
yes, there are those that seem to prefer the alfa; it's finicky, louder, snorty - what some consider "soul". i prefer the refinement of the bmw. that said, neither is in the same league as 991 or 992.
if i still needed four doors, there remains a single best choice - the //m5. as long as that domagoj dukec keeps his filthy paws off it.
if i still needed four doors, there remains a single best choice - the //m5. as long as that domagoj dukec keeps his filthy paws off it.
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05-05-2021, 10:39 PM
#37
05-05-2021, 11:01 PM
#38
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
05-05-2021, 11:16 PM
#39
Pro
and yes far better than a M2 Comp or M3/M4..Giulia’s chasis and steering is in another league....only problem is that sometime They have electrical glitches.
Last edited by Bill_76; 05-05-2021 at 11:24 PM.
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detansinn (05-05-2021)
05-06-2021, 12:18 AM
#40
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yes, there are those that seem to prefer the alfa; it's finicky, louder, snorty - what some consider "soul". i prefer the refinement of the bmw. that said, neither is in the same league as 991 or 992.
if i still needed four doors, there remains a single best choice - the //m5. as long as that domagoj dukec keeps his filthy paws off it.
if i still needed four doors, there remains a single best choice - the //m5. as long as that domagoj dukec keeps his filthy paws off it.
Oh - one of my best friends is into his 2nd modern daily driver M5. In his garage he has a GTV6, a 4C, and an ES30/SZ. Good taste.
Last edited by aggie57; 05-06-2021 at 12:21 AM.
05-06-2021, 12:44 AM
#41
not even close ... my cousin just got a used Alfa and he’s been to the shop twice in 4 months.... I prefer my current m2cs anytime over the Alfa..... or my sold m3 over the Alfa I just can’t get into any car that has a tourqe converter transmission....
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Arrowsigns (05-10-2021)
05-06-2021, 08:56 PM
#42
05-06-2021, 10:03 PM
#43
Our 992s need to be put on charger if we lock them for 10 days, or gremlins will appear in the PCM and weird warnings will emit. Actually those happen irrespective of the charge. The modern Alfa's reliability issues are all electronics. I may be mistaken, but the engine, drivetrain, suspension and brakes are just fine and they don't rust like the old ones. So any high spirited horse will have its issues. The price you pay for winning!
05-07-2021, 01:15 PM
#44
interesting post!
Some time ago I purchased a Giulia Quadrifoglio and here below you can find few impressions I wrote (and posted) back then. I also tried to compare it to my Porsches (997 tt mk1 and 981 Spyder)
Definitely an amazing car.
-------------------------------
I always had a sweet spot for Alfa Romeo and when the Giulia was unveiled back in 2015 I thought that it was a wonderful car. It was presented directly in the sporty Quadrifoglio version, strongly wanted by the back then head of FCA, Mr. Marchionne. I’ve often been thinking about a Giulia, but -for many reasons- I always ended up buying German toys in the recent years. As time went by, however, using some of the cars form Zuffenhausen became more complicated, so I started looking around for a sporty car with 4 or 5 real (!) seats. I remember I had been invited by BMW to test the M4 Competition on the Mugello track and in the countryside around...and I also remember that I kind of like it, so I started looking on YouTube for the possible options. Everybody was speaking very highly of the M4, but even more so of the Giulia.
So, finally after some thinking I went to check out the Alfa Giulia.
I looked at the options available and one of them hit my attention on the spot: 19000 km, 2017 (therefore with a pure DFI engine with CO2 emissions below the 200g/km Swiss tax threshold), and really full spec (Sparco buckets, Harman Kardon, carboceramics, adaptive cruise control, light pack and keyless entry, etc). It had the ZF 8 speed automatic, the right choice vs the rubbery and vague 6 manual unit.
I wasn't so sure about the color (silver …. again!!!), but ok, the price was reasonable and so I’m already on the motorway to the dealer.
I get to the place: a small town and a small garage (a former Alfa dealer, now multibrand, but probably mostly focused on Italian stuff).
The Giulia is outside, waiting for me. The car was not cleaned (actually very dirty, and full of yellow pollen both inside and outside), or prepared in any way…ok no issue…good to see it as it was given back by the previous owner.
My first observation was that the build quality was a bit disappointing. The gear lever it totally unfinished (rough edges), squeaky handles, poor-quality rear-view camera, average audio quality (despite 900 W and 15 speakers), all managed by an infotainment system at least 2 generations behind competition. All of this not to talk about the wide and irregular bodywork panel gaps
The interior (and exterior) design is on the other hand really beautiful and really spot on, with harmonious proportions and capable to deliver a great sense of occasion (curtesy of the giant door sills, front splitter, rear spoiler and big bonnet nostrils)
The body paint is definitely not one of the nice “Rosso”s in the palette I was dreaming of, but in person the grey is not bad as it is much more vivid and rich than expected. Actually it fits.
Time to turn the car on: the V6 sounds a bit clunky when cold (later I will discover it is quite common and possibly due to high pressure fuel pumps and/or one of the auxiliary oil pumps used to deactivate one of the cylinder banks), but after 15/20 seconds it starts idling super quietly. Let it warm up a bit and then I start testing how it reacts to the right pedal and….as for most of the FCA engines at idle it is very disappointing: it feels disconnected and lazy. I do not like it, but I know from the past that this is not indicative of the real engine temper.
So, I put the DNA selector in ‘A’ (the quiet Advanced Efficiency mode) the gearbox in D and I release the brake. The first feeling is very unexpected: the car moves in amazing silence and gains speed in a strange way… it glides effortlessly. Actually, the car moves as if it had no weight with the engine never exceeding 1500 RPM and the gearbox playing its role in a super quick and smooth way. You immediately understand that it is a non-usual car: it moves fast in the traffic almost without touching the accelerator pedal…it simply goes. If you just push a bit more, the in-gear acceleration becomes very solid even if the gearbox never lets the engine exceed 2000 - 2500 RPM. It’s clear that under the bonnet there is an unusual animal...and -no surprise- the ‘disconnected’ response of the accelerator pedal you feel at idle is totally gone.
But there are other surprising ingredients:
The steering is the most direct I’ve ever tried. It is very light and may not be as communicative as the Elise one, but it is FAST, and VERY good. The car in ‘A’ mode is quite soft, but you clearly feel the potential of the chassis.
Concerning the brakes, the initial bite is sharp and the car loses speed very quickly. I read a lot of critics about the difficult modulation of the brake-by-wire system, but for me it is quite ok; only the noise the brakes make at low speed is a bit annoying, but I understand it is quite common for CCB units.
Ok, the water temperature is now high enough to start asking more to the power plant and I turn the DNA selector first to ‘N’ and then to ‘D’. While ‘N’ is a kind of a small step, when you engage ‘D’ things change. ‘D’ stands for “Dynamic” …and this is exactly how the car feels in this mode.
The gearbox becomes sharper and when I start using the paddles I realize that this is probably the best unit I’ve ever tried (it is an automatic with a torque converter, but it is better than all the double clutch unites I’ve tried - and I tried some good ones).
The dampers become stiffer and the car feels more sharp and on its toes as well, but these are not the main changes. The engine here becomes the protagonist: the unit become much more responsive and the gearbox allows you to get beyond 4000 RPM. If you press on the right pedal, the car jumps ahead, gaining speed with amazing brio. I’m impressed by the turbo lag (or better the absence of it). The exhaust tone changes as well as soon as you start asking more to the biturbo unit and becomes from time to time very deep and loud; in addition there are many pops an bangs (some quite strong) as soon as you change gear.
It takes few seconds in ‘D’ to understand that the car is fast, sharp, agile and fun to drive.
I start pushing more and more…and I feel that the car is capable to give a lot of confidence despite throwing on the ground several Nm from the rear wheels.
I haven’t even tried the Race mode (an additional step in the DNA selector only available on the Quadrifoglios) that the main quality of the Giulia is evident to me: it is actually clear to me: there are 2 very different cars in one…and they are both very good ones.
When the DNA is in ‘A’ the car is a fast yet quiet family sedan. Effortless and very smooth it can take you around in silence and comfort around town. On the motorway even the fuel consumption is not excessive, courtesy of a very sophisticated system which completely deactivates the right cylinder bank (actually it not only stops fuel injection, but it also halts valves and closes turbo lubrication).
When you turn the selector to ‘D’, it becomes a sport car, that’s it…and I’m not talking about a Sport Sedan, I’m talking about a Sport CAR.
If you are brave enough to play around in Race mode things become even more interesting: more brutality, faster gear changes, more sound….the only issue is that Race disengages any kind of assistance (stability and traction control) leaving the 510 CV (and 600 Nm) fully in your hands.
How does it compare to the other cars I own (997 turbo mk1 and 981 Spyder)?
I tried to organize some thoughts by topic:
Engine and straight line acceleration:
The V6 It is powerful and it has definitely less turbo lag than the 997 turbo (despite the latter using VTG technology). In gear acceleration is very good, even if it is inferior to the 997. Probably here the higher torque of the flat 6 helps. The other factors which may play in favor of the 997 are the AWD system and the fact that apparently the Alfa does not give you access to the full bean until you reach 6th gear (I understand Ferrari does the same, and they do it to give you the feeling of a car which is always capable of strong acceleration even at speed).
The V of the Alfa is a 90 deg. one (by chance this is the same as the Ferrari V8) and due to this configuration cylinders are firing with a 90 / 150 deg pattern. You feel something is uneven as soon as you fire it up. It is not unpleasant….it simply has a very different personality and sound (more irregular, almost pulsating) vs the super smooth flat 6.
The comparison with the other Porsche (the 981 Spyder) is in many instances unfair to both contenders: on the one hand the screaming NA Flat 6 is high revving as more reactive to the throttle inputs, but on the other hand the power and torque gap is simply massive (even the lower weight of the Spyder does offset the balance).
Looking at dry figures, both the Alfa and the 997 cover the 0-100 in 3.9 seconds, but they do it in very different ways:
Giulia sometimes seems to struggle a bit to put on the ground all the torque (apparently as I said before it is not even giving all the Nm in low gears), but the ZF AT8 transmission works incredibly well to bring the speed up. Acceleration is very fast, but it is not wildly brutal.
The 997 is different: it's a sledgehammer: the AWD system simply can put on the ground any amount of torque….and here there’s a lot. There is a bit of turbo lag sometimes, but when air enters the Mezger at 1.2 bars it becomes like a rocket. The main limitation at this point is your speed in changing gears with the Manual transmission.
The Spyder covers the 0-100 in 4,5 seconds and the gap in terms of feeling vs. the other 2 is even wider. The 3,8 delivers its power in a more linear and smooth way. Yes, there is a good crescendo above 5000 RPM, but the very long gearing (in 2nd it gets to almost 130 km/h) does not help and the 997/Giulia league remains far away.
Twisty countryside roads (or even better, mountain roads):
Here the Spyder is at home; it's nimble and fast turning attitude makes is a great tool for these roads. It is flat and immediate in the reactions and its steering ratio (even if not crazy fast as the Giulia) is still one of the most direct on the market…and sound of the Flat 6 is amazing with the valves open. The Spyder is like a katana sword on these roads. The 997 lacks the sound of the 981 and requires a bit of learning to get good fun out of it (very hard breaking before the bend, keeping the nose down to minimize understeer and then hard on the throttle just after the apex). Once you get used to it, it is not bad at all, and then you start enjoying the massive (!!) acceleration between the bends: that’s the magic of 700 Nm on an AWD 1,5 tons car. The Giulia here is an in-between solution: it is very agile and fast turning, showing limited understeering and strong slingshot-like push at the exit of every bend. Suspensions stiffen a bit with the ‘D’ setting, but they are definitely softer than the 2 Porsches. Good or bad? In terms of road compliance, they are definitely good, but sometimes I have a little bit of a ‘rubbery’ feeling (more vs the 997/981, but also vs. the M4). The overall experience is however impressive: the steering here is the protagonist, with an incredibly direct and sharp response. You have the feeling the front wheels are cutting into the tarmac, with limited understeering and an amazing sense of agility. The balanced chassis and the high torque engine (working in perfect sync with the gearbox) complete the picture. At the exit of the bends you clearly feel a lot of oversteering potential, but for the moment I avoided exaggerating in ‘Race’. Soundwise the car is not bad at all as every time the engine goes beyond 3500 RPM the tone changes and becomes very deep and loud (lots of cracks and bangs complete the melody).
Highway cruising:
Here the Spyder is not (!) at home: it is rather noisy both for the engine and for the soft top. Let’s be clear, it is not bad, and you can still travel around happily, but the comparison with the 997 is easily lost by the Spyder (and there is no surprise here). In a certain way, it is comfier when the roof is open as the blue sky above helps creating a sense of occasion. The carbon bucket seats on the other hand are great and the do a fantastic job in holding you firmly but gently for many hours (even if I’m not what you call a skinny person). The 997 is a reasonable cruiser, with the moderate engine sound and the suspensions treating you well (if in soft mode). Even the fuel consumption is not bad, and it remains in the range of 10/11 km/l. The only disturbing factor is the noise coming from the huge rear tires. Giulia, on the other hand is amazing. It glides in silence and it treats you (and the other 3 passengers) in great way. Only sometimes at around 100 km/h it shows a kind of roughness as if it was working with 3 cylinders …. which actually is the case. Apart from this, if you stay away from the ‘Race’ or ‘D’ modes it is a great cruiser. Even the fuel economy is interesting, reaching 13/14 km/l in ‘A’ if you respect speed limits. However, if you are already travelling at 130 km/h and you decide to wake up the 500 horses, this is what happens: the ZF downshifts (easily a couple of gears) while the turbos are spooling up to produce up to 2 bars of boost, and in a blink of an eye the 600 Nm are already stamping you on the backrest. A good surprise comes as well from the Sparco buckets: even after 4 hours you are definitely still all right. The only complaint I have is related to the Air Conditioning unit: after a couple of hours it starts misbehaving sending random temperature air around the cabin. If you shut down and restart the car it goes back to normal, but it is definitely annoying. I know there is a SW upgrade from Alfa…I’ll try to get an appointment soon to get it fixed. Additional note: I was reading about the trunk getting very hot after some driving….actually it is absolutely true, but as long as you don’t use the Alfa as an Ice cream cargo, who cares….
Overall Quality:
Let’s make clear from the beginning that the German cars win hands down here. Still, the situation is less obvious than what you may think at first. Let me explain. It is difficult to do better than the 911 turbo, which after several years still looks brand new. The Spyder is very good as well and it is impossible to raise any complaint on the assembly and on quality of the components. The Alfa, on the other hand is full of contradictions. On the one hand you have an unfinished gear level, ridiculous rear view camera, poor quality -yet expensive- audio system, but then, you open the bonnet and you see that it is all carbonfiber (and very nicely finished), you look at the front suspensions and they are well designed double wishbones, you lay down and you see the full flat undertray with the rear diffuser and the side fins beside the rear wheels…and you understand that the Alfa Skunkworks really focused on what really mattered…and by when they were done with this, the money was over for the rest. I think it is a pity; the perceived quality from a superficial analysis is not up to the standard expected by the average driver, but under the skin is a true outsider. I went to see a 2020 Giulia QV to see if they did something to improve the situation and I was very glad to see that they worked hard to fix some of the ‘problems’: new and much better infotainment (maybe a bit slow, but very intuitive and with nice graphics - they also added the useless touchscreen), new leather finished gear lever, better quality door handles, better bodywork assembly tolerances, and they even added folding rear seats. I simply hope it is not too late for the costumers to consider the Alfa. A bizarre observation: unexpectedly the QV attracts a lot of attention when driving around, much more than the other cars I have. Maybe because it is rather rare, maybe because of the latent equity of the brand…I do not know, but you cannot imagine how often people are asking about it or they take pictures when it is parked.
Conclusion:
So, where do I stand right now? I confess that when I signed the contract to buy the Giulia I was not completely convinced and I was prepared to resell it quickly. I bought it because -as I already said- I always had a soft spot for Alfas (I grew up close to the historical Arese factory, I had some great Alfas in the past and I still have a red old timer in my garage in Milano) and because I was curious to see how the car could have been as a family car. After few months of ownership, I have to say that Giulia has been growing on me every day more and more: I simply like it (actually the entire family likes it). I like its double personality, I like the way it looks and the way it drives. At this stage, most of the defects I spotted out at the beginning are much more bearable, a small price to pay for the great satisfactions the car can deliver, so, I think she will stay with us for some time…. J
Some time ago I purchased a Giulia Quadrifoglio and here below you can find few impressions I wrote (and posted) back then. I also tried to compare it to my Porsches (997 tt mk1 and 981 Spyder)
Definitely an amazing car.
-------------------------------
I always had a sweet spot for Alfa Romeo and when the Giulia was unveiled back in 2015 I thought that it was a wonderful car. It was presented directly in the sporty Quadrifoglio version, strongly wanted by the back then head of FCA, Mr. Marchionne. I’ve often been thinking about a Giulia, but -for many reasons- I always ended up buying German toys in the recent years. As time went by, however, using some of the cars form Zuffenhausen became more complicated, so I started looking around for a sporty car with 4 or 5 real (!) seats. I remember I had been invited by BMW to test the M4 Competition on the Mugello track and in the countryside around...and I also remember that I kind of like it, so I started looking on YouTube for the possible options. Everybody was speaking very highly of the M4, but even more so of the Giulia.
So, finally after some thinking I went to check out the Alfa Giulia.
I looked at the options available and one of them hit my attention on the spot: 19000 km, 2017 (therefore with a pure DFI engine with CO2 emissions below the 200g/km Swiss tax threshold), and really full spec (Sparco buckets, Harman Kardon, carboceramics, adaptive cruise control, light pack and keyless entry, etc). It had the ZF 8 speed automatic, the right choice vs the rubbery and vague 6 manual unit.
I wasn't so sure about the color (silver …. again!!!), but ok, the price was reasonable and so I’m already on the motorway to the dealer.
I get to the place: a small town and a small garage (a former Alfa dealer, now multibrand, but probably mostly focused on Italian stuff).
The Giulia is outside, waiting for me. The car was not cleaned (actually very dirty, and full of yellow pollen both inside and outside), or prepared in any way…ok no issue…good to see it as it was given back by the previous owner.
My first observation was that the build quality was a bit disappointing. The gear lever it totally unfinished (rough edges), squeaky handles, poor-quality rear-view camera, average audio quality (despite 900 W and 15 speakers), all managed by an infotainment system at least 2 generations behind competition. All of this not to talk about the wide and irregular bodywork panel gaps
The interior (and exterior) design is on the other hand really beautiful and really spot on, with harmonious proportions and capable to deliver a great sense of occasion (curtesy of the giant door sills, front splitter, rear spoiler and big bonnet nostrils)
The body paint is definitely not one of the nice “Rosso”s in the palette I was dreaming of, but in person the grey is not bad as it is much more vivid and rich than expected. Actually it fits.
Time to turn the car on: the V6 sounds a bit clunky when cold (later I will discover it is quite common and possibly due to high pressure fuel pumps and/or one of the auxiliary oil pumps used to deactivate one of the cylinder banks), but after 15/20 seconds it starts idling super quietly. Let it warm up a bit and then I start testing how it reacts to the right pedal and….as for most of the FCA engines at idle it is very disappointing: it feels disconnected and lazy. I do not like it, but I know from the past that this is not indicative of the real engine temper.
So, I put the DNA selector in ‘A’ (the quiet Advanced Efficiency mode) the gearbox in D and I release the brake. The first feeling is very unexpected: the car moves in amazing silence and gains speed in a strange way… it glides effortlessly. Actually, the car moves as if it had no weight with the engine never exceeding 1500 RPM and the gearbox playing its role in a super quick and smooth way. You immediately understand that it is a non-usual car: it moves fast in the traffic almost without touching the accelerator pedal…it simply goes. If you just push a bit more, the in-gear acceleration becomes very solid even if the gearbox never lets the engine exceed 2000 - 2500 RPM. It’s clear that under the bonnet there is an unusual animal...and -no surprise- the ‘disconnected’ response of the accelerator pedal you feel at idle is totally gone.
But there are other surprising ingredients:
The steering is the most direct I’ve ever tried. It is very light and may not be as communicative as the Elise one, but it is FAST, and VERY good. The car in ‘A’ mode is quite soft, but you clearly feel the potential of the chassis.
Concerning the brakes, the initial bite is sharp and the car loses speed very quickly. I read a lot of critics about the difficult modulation of the brake-by-wire system, but for me it is quite ok; only the noise the brakes make at low speed is a bit annoying, but I understand it is quite common for CCB units.
Ok, the water temperature is now high enough to start asking more to the power plant and I turn the DNA selector first to ‘N’ and then to ‘D’. While ‘N’ is a kind of a small step, when you engage ‘D’ things change. ‘D’ stands for “Dynamic” …and this is exactly how the car feels in this mode.
The gearbox becomes sharper and when I start using the paddles I realize that this is probably the best unit I’ve ever tried (it is an automatic with a torque converter, but it is better than all the double clutch unites I’ve tried - and I tried some good ones).
The dampers become stiffer and the car feels more sharp and on its toes as well, but these are not the main changes. The engine here becomes the protagonist: the unit become much more responsive and the gearbox allows you to get beyond 4000 RPM. If you press on the right pedal, the car jumps ahead, gaining speed with amazing brio. I’m impressed by the turbo lag (or better the absence of it). The exhaust tone changes as well as soon as you start asking more to the biturbo unit and becomes from time to time very deep and loud; in addition there are many pops an bangs (some quite strong) as soon as you change gear.
It takes few seconds in ‘D’ to understand that the car is fast, sharp, agile and fun to drive.
I start pushing more and more…and I feel that the car is capable to give a lot of confidence despite throwing on the ground several Nm from the rear wheels.
I haven’t even tried the Race mode (an additional step in the DNA selector only available on the Quadrifoglios) that the main quality of the Giulia is evident to me: it is actually clear to me: there are 2 very different cars in one…and they are both very good ones.
When the DNA is in ‘A’ the car is a fast yet quiet family sedan. Effortless and very smooth it can take you around in silence and comfort around town. On the motorway even the fuel consumption is not excessive, courtesy of a very sophisticated system which completely deactivates the right cylinder bank (actually it not only stops fuel injection, but it also halts valves and closes turbo lubrication).
When you turn the selector to ‘D’, it becomes a sport car, that’s it…and I’m not talking about a Sport Sedan, I’m talking about a Sport CAR.
If you are brave enough to play around in Race mode things become even more interesting: more brutality, faster gear changes, more sound….the only issue is that Race disengages any kind of assistance (stability and traction control) leaving the 510 CV (and 600 Nm) fully in your hands.
How does it compare to the other cars I own (997 turbo mk1 and 981 Spyder)?
I tried to organize some thoughts by topic:
Engine and straight line acceleration:
The V6 It is powerful and it has definitely less turbo lag than the 997 turbo (despite the latter using VTG technology). In gear acceleration is very good, even if it is inferior to the 997. Probably here the higher torque of the flat 6 helps. The other factors which may play in favor of the 997 are the AWD system and the fact that apparently the Alfa does not give you access to the full bean until you reach 6th gear (I understand Ferrari does the same, and they do it to give you the feeling of a car which is always capable of strong acceleration even at speed).
The V of the Alfa is a 90 deg. one (by chance this is the same as the Ferrari V8) and due to this configuration cylinders are firing with a 90 / 150 deg pattern. You feel something is uneven as soon as you fire it up. It is not unpleasant….it simply has a very different personality and sound (more irregular, almost pulsating) vs the super smooth flat 6.
The comparison with the other Porsche (the 981 Spyder) is in many instances unfair to both contenders: on the one hand the screaming NA Flat 6 is high revving as more reactive to the throttle inputs, but on the other hand the power and torque gap is simply massive (even the lower weight of the Spyder does offset the balance).
Looking at dry figures, both the Alfa and the 997 cover the 0-100 in 3.9 seconds, but they do it in very different ways:
Giulia sometimes seems to struggle a bit to put on the ground all the torque (apparently as I said before it is not even giving all the Nm in low gears), but the ZF AT8 transmission works incredibly well to bring the speed up. Acceleration is very fast, but it is not wildly brutal.
The 997 is different: it's a sledgehammer: the AWD system simply can put on the ground any amount of torque….and here there’s a lot. There is a bit of turbo lag sometimes, but when air enters the Mezger at 1.2 bars it becomes like a rocket. The main limitation at this point is your speed in changing gears with the Manual transmission.
The Spyder covers the 0-100 in 4,5 seconds and the gap in terms of feeling vs. the other 2 is even wider. The 3,8 delivers its power in a more linear and smooth way. Yes, there is a good crescendo above 5000 RPM, but the very long gearing (in 2nd it gets to almost 130 km/h) does not help and the 997/Giulia league remains far away.
Twisty countryside roads (or even better, mountain roads):
Here the Spyder is at home; it's nimble and fast turning attitude makes is a great tool for these roads. It is flat and immediate in the reactions and its steering ratio (even if not crazy fast as the Giulia) is still one of the most direct on the market…and sound of the Flat 6 is amazing with the valves open. The Spyder is like a katana sword on these roads. The 997 lacks the sound of the 981 and requires a bit of learning to get good fun out of it (very hard breaking before the bend, keeping the nose down to minimize understeer and then hard on the throttle just after the apex). Once you get used to it, it is not bad at all, and then you start enjoying the massive (!!) acceleration between the bends: that’s the magic of 700 Nm on an AWD 1,5 tons car. The Giulia here is an in-between solution: it is very agile and fast turning, showing limited understeering and strong slingshot-like push at the exit of every bend. Suspensions stiffen a bit with the ‘D’ setting, but they are definitely softer than the 2 Porsches. Good or bad? In terms of road compliance, they are definitely good, but sometimes I have a little bit of a ‘rubbery’ feeling (more vs the 997/981, but also vs. the M4). The overall experience is however impressive: the steering here is the protagonist, with an incredibly direct and sharp response. You have the feeling the front wheels are cutting into the tarmac, with limited understeering and an amazing sense of agility. The balanced chassis and the high torque engine (working in perfect sync with the gearbox) complete the picture. At the exit of the bends you clearly feel a lot of oversteering potential, but for the moment I avoided exaggerating in ‘Race’. Soundwise the car is not bad at all as every time the engine goes beyond 3500 RPM the tone changes and becomes very deep and loud (lots of cracks and bangs complete the melody).
Highway cruising:
Here the Spyder is not (!) at home: it is rather noisy both for the engine and for the soft top. Let’s be clear, it is not bad, and you can still travel around happily, but the comparison with the 997 is easily lost by the Spyder (and there is no surprise here). In a certain way, it is comfier when the roof is open as the blue sky above helps creating a sense of occasion. The carbon bucket seats on the other hand are great and the do a fantastic job in holding you firmly but gently for many hours (even if I’m not what you call a skinny person). The 997 is a reasonable cruiser, with the moderate engine sound and the suspensions treating you well (if in soft mode). Even the fuel consumption is not bad, and it remains in the range of 10/11 km/l. The only disturbing factor is the noise coming from the huge rear tires. Giulia, on the other hand is amazing. It glides in silence and it treats you (and the other 3 passengers) in great way. Only sometimes at around 100 km/h it shows a kind of roughness as if it was working with 3 cylinders …. which actually is the case. Apart from this, if you stay away from the ‘Race’ or ‘D’ modes it is a great cruiser. Even the fuel economy is interesting, reaching 13/14 km/l in ‘A’ if you respect speed limits. However, if you are already travelling at 130 km/h and you decide to wake up the 500 horses, this is what happens: the ZF downshifts (easily a couple of gears) while the turbos are spooling up to produce up to 2 bars of boost, and in a blink of an eye the 600 Nm are already stamping you on the backrest. A good surprise comes as well from the Sparco buckets: even after 4 hours you are definitely still all right. The only complaint I have is related to the Air Conditioning unit: after a couple of hours it starts misbehaving sending random temperature air around the cabin. If you shut down and restart the car it goes back to normal, but it is definitely annoying. I know there is a SW upgrade from Alfa…I’ll try to get an appointment soon to get it fixed. Additional note: I was reading about the trunk getting very hot after some driving….actually it is absolutely true, but as long as you don’t use the Alfa as an Ice cream cargo, who cares….
Overall Quality:
Let’s make clear from the beginning that the German cars win hands down here. Still, the situation is less obvious than what you may think at first. Let me explain. It is difficult to do better than the 911 turbo, which after several years still looks brand new. The Spyder is very good as well and it is impossible to raise any complaint on the assembly and on quality of the components. The Alfa, on the other hand is full of contradictions. On the one hand you have an unfinished gear level, ridiculous rear view camera, poor quality -yet expensive- audio system, but then, you open the bonnet and you see that it is all carbonfiber (and very nicely finished), you look at the front suspensions and they are well designed double wishbones, you lay down and you see the full flat undertray with the rear diffuser and the side fins beside the rear wheels…and you understand that the Alfa Skunkworks really focused on what really mattered…and by when they were done with this, the money was over for the rest. I think it is a pity; the perceived quality from a superficial analysis is not up to the standard expected by the average driver, but under the skin is a true outsider. I went to see a 2020 Giulia QV to see if they did something to improve the situation and I was very glad to see that they worked hard to fix some of the ‘problems’: new and much better infotainment (maybe a bit slow, but very intuitive and with nice graphics - they also added the useless touchscreen), new leather finished gear lever, better quality door handles, better bodywork assembly tolerances, and they even added folding rear seats. I simply hope it is not too late for the costumers to consider the Alfa. A bizarre observation: unexpectedly the QV attracts a lot of attention when driving around, much more than the other cars I have. Maybe because it is rather rare, maybe because of the latent equity of the brand…I do not know, but you cannot imagine how often people are asking about it or they take pictures when it is parked.
Conclusion:
So, where do I stand right now? I confess that when I signed the contract to buy the Giulia I was not completely convinced and I was prepared to resell it quickly. I bought it because -as I already said- I always had a soft spot for Alfas (I grew up close to the historical Arese factory, I had some great Alfas in the past and I still have a red old timer in my garage in Milano) and because I was curious to see how the car could have been as a family car. After few months of ownership, I have to say that Giulia has been growing on me every day more and more: I simply like it (actually the entire family likes it). I like its double personality, I like the way it looks and the way it drives. At this stage, most of the defects I spotted out at the beginning are much more bearable, a small price to pay for the great satisfactions the car can deliver, so, I think she will stay with us for some time…. J
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Noah Fect (01-18-2022)
05-08-2021, 11:32 AM
#45
When you count the back seat storage area, the 911 has more cargo space than the Boxster or Cayman. I wouldn’t say that the midengine engine cars are “much lighter” when the weight difference is on the order of 100lbs.
I seriously considered a Boxster S before getting the Alfa Romeo 4C Spider instead, which happens to be 1,000lbs lighter than a Boxster.
The Boxster/Cayman are great cars, but even the GT4 gets slotted below the 992 Carrera S by journalists like Motor Trend’s Jonny Lieberman.
With regards to fun, there are folks have an easier time tossing around a less expensive car. There are some 911 owners that are a little more gingerly and cautious, because they are driving a $150k+ car. It’s probably a reality for many owners. Those owners might be happier with a Cayman or Boxster if it made them less uptight about the experience — hence, more fun. A 911 is best enjoyed when you treat it like a regular car.
I seriously considered a Boxster S before getting the Alfa Romeo 4C Spider instead, which happens to be 1,000lbs lighter than a Boxster.
The Boxster/Cayman are great cars, but even the GT4 gets slotted below the 992 Carrera S by journalists like Motor Trend’s Jonny Lieberman.
With regards to fun, there are folks have an easier time tossing around a less expensive car. There are some 911 owners that are a little more gingerly and cautious, because they are driving a $150k+ car. It’s probably a reality for many owners. Those owners might be happier with a Cayman or Boxster if it made them less uptight about the experience — hence, more fun. A 911 is best enjoyed when you treat it like a regular car.
Considering the carbon fiber tub, also a reasonable value.
I would own one if I weren't over 6'3". Especially since I'm only a mile and 1/2 from a dealer.
Ferrari has lost their way to some extent- and you don't need a Ferrari, as you already have a prancing horse on your Agate grey hood.
Your stable is definitive.