Maintenance and reliability of rear wheel/axle steering system?
09-04-2020, 07:49 AM
#31
I agree with the recommendation to look at the actuator part cost. But if you're focused more on time rather than $$$, it doesn't help you much.
09-04-2020, 08:20 AM
#32
The unfamiliar is always scary. We don't really question the durability of front wheel steering, do we?
Ironically, the only thing that has ever failed on my 23 year old 993....is the steering rack
I suspect rear wheel steering is as durable, if not more, than the front.
Ironically, the only thing that has ever failed on my 23 year old 993....is the steering rack
I suspect rear wheel steering is as durable, if not more, than the front.
09-04-2020, 10:19 AM
#33
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Thx.On a different question -....does it “feel artificial”? A few comments I have read said that it does. I’ve also heard others say they can’t tell the difference? On day to day driving, do you notice the difference?
09-04-2020, 10:30 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
The easiest answer for you is to skip RAS and stop analyzing it. Just say no. If you don’t have it you won’t miss it.
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TheStanman (09-04-2020)
09-04-2020, 10:46 AM
#35
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09-04-2020, 11:02 AM
#36
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My comment just to provide context on the number of RAS Porsches out there when assessing problems posted on forums (e.g., what smiles posted) and in response to your comment that Porsche has made only hundreds of RAS cars. We know from the data that it's at least tens of thousands. Yes, your specific dealer may not have sold very many.
I agree with the recommendation to look at the actuator part cost. But if you're focused more on time rather than $$$, it doesn't help you much.
I agree with the recommendation to look at the actuator part cost. But if you're focused more on time rather than $$$, it doesn't help you much.
For me, the only real source for meaningful Porsche reliability data, comes from my local service rep. So, his comment about it being “too new”, served as the basis for my comment of “only a few hundred”. My “few hundred” comment, since 2013, was meant by my dealership, not world-wide. Sorry, should have clarified. As my quick back of the envelope estimate indicates, it probably is fraction of that.
Time is $$$. At least it is for me. The cost of the option is not a decision driver, but, if there were a reliability issue, I’d like to understand what those issues might be before any decision is made on whether to select RAS..Just doing my due diligence.
09-04-2020, 11:17 AM
#37
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Thread Starter
If folks answer honestly. I would say yes. Remember I said most and not all. Adding to that just how unreliable is it going to be in the first 2 years of ownership, at the average of less than 5k miles per year, before it is sold off or traded for the next new and greatest generation? That seems to be the majority of ownership pattern in the life of your average Porsche until it hits 4 years or older. I'm only stating what I observe. I also question the reports of reliabiltiy from new every two crowd as well. If I am looking for good intel on reliability I want it from the guy that's been drinving that same car for better than a decade. He has a real perspective on reliability that someone thta trades every two years does not. That's why my position is it's too early to ask about the reliability of a system on cars that are only a couple years old.
At the very least I'd want the information from the guy that's got a 2 year old car with 100k on the clocks. He'll have a reasonable idea of reliability as well. There is an owner here with a very high mileage GT4. If I wanted to know about reliability of that platform he'd be the guy I would ask. Not the guy that took delivery 4 years ago and has 6k on it.
Basically time will tell if it's reliable. Right now the sample size is both too small and the duration to short. Are they breaking daily..probably not or they would likely have not been put into production.
At the very least I'd want the information from the guy that's got a 2 year old car with 100k on the clocks. He'll have a reasonable idea of reliability as well. There is an owner here with a very high mileage GT4. If I wanted to know about reliability of that platform he'd be the guy I would ask. Not the guy that took delivery 4 years ago and has 6k on it.
Basically time will tell if it's reliable. Right now the sample size is both too small and the duration to short. Are they breaking daily..probably not or they would likely have not been put into production.
Per one of my posts - The only person I know that may have enough reliability data, would be my local service rep. He is always the first guy I turn to with these types of questions. Unfortunately, he didn’t have an answer for me with, “it’s too new”...meaning, he has insufficient data to give me an accurate answer. And in his game, integrity and trust is paramount...so I believe what he told me.
My take away from what he told me, and comment from this thread are: (1) There does not appear to be many complaints from customers about the reliability of the RAS system. The reason for this could be - either no issues at all, or few cars sold at my dealership have RAS..and/ or, low mileage. (2) repair costs out of warranty could be a concern. But i guess that’s true of many things Porsche?
09-04-2020, 12:36 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
...and remember, I too only said “most, not all”. I don’t believe the GT4 options RWS? Could be wrong?
Per one of my posts - The only person I know that may have enough reliability data, would be my local service rep. He is always the first guy I turn to with these types of questions. Unfortunately, he didn’t have an answer for me with, “it’s too new”...meaning, he has insufficient data to give me an accurate answer. And in his game, integrity and trust is paramount...so I believe what he told me.
My take away from what he told me, and comment from this thread are: (1) There does not appear to be many complaints from customers about the reliability of the RAS system. The reason for this could be - either no issues at all, or few cars sold at my dealership have RAS..and/ or, low mileage. (2) repair costs out of warranty could be a concern. But i guess that’s true of many things Porsche?
Per one of my posts - The only person I know that may have enough reliability data, would be my local service rep. He is always the first guy I turn to with these types of questions. Unfortunately, he didn’t have an answer for me with, “it’s too new”...meaning, he has insufficient data to give me an accurate answer. And in his game, integrity and trust is paramount...so I believe what he told me.
My take away from what he told me, and comment from this thread are: (1) There does not appear to be many complaints from customers about the reliability of the RAS system. The reason for this could be - either no issues at all, or few cars sold at my dealership have RAS..and/ or, low mileage. (2) repair costs out of warranty could be a concern. But i guess that’s true of many things Porsche?
09-04-2020, 12:39 PM
#39
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09-05-2020, 12:06 AM
#41
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But if you have it you will love it. Geez, if someone is worrying about what may happen it is time to consider a Chevy. I have it on my 991.2 and would spec it again, and as far as problems go I would not let it worry anyone...many more faults related to FAL (and I did not get it since I did not feel I needed it, which I have not).
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992Sam (09-05-2020)
09-05-2020, 01:22 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
I've posted on this before. As a Physicist and Mechanical Engineer myself, I did some research into the durability of Porsche's (ZF's) RAS (Active Kinematics Control) system before spec'ing it on my T. It is the same system being used on the upcoming Ford F150.
Link to the source: https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29123.html
TL;DR - 500K miles durability was the target for the Ford system, and the Porsche system should not be significantly different.
See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1178...l#post16377129
Link to the source: https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29123.html
TL;DR - 500K miles durability was the target for the Ford system, and the Porsche system should not be significantly different.
See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1178...l#post16377129
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992Sam (09-05-2020)
09-05-2020, 01:28 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
I've posted on this before. As a Physicist and Mechanical Engineer myself, I did some research into the durability of Porsche's (ZF's) RAS (Active Kinematics Control) system before spec'ing it on my T. It is the same system being used on the upcoming Ford F150.
Link to the source: https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29123.html
TL;DR - 500K miles durability was the target for the Ford system, and the Porsche system should not be significantly different.
See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1178...l#post16377129
Link to the source: https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29123.html
TL;DR - 500K miles durability was the target for the Ford system, and the Porsche system should not be significantly different.
See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1178...l#post16377129
I have an EE degree myself from some 25 years ago, but haven't worked in the field ever.. But I know for example in my career field which is working with commercial aircraft, the "Aerospace grade" systems on those planes can last for decades.
09-05-2020, 01:54 PM
#44
I understand the pro’s of this system, but does anybody have any first hand knowledge about maintenance schedule (ie costs), and reliability of the rear axle steering system? I read on a Canadian dealership site that talks about how the system needs regular tuning/calibration....that made me a bit concerned about costs, and/ or reliability. Anybody have any feedback on this concern? Doesn’t have to be on a 992...
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09-05-2020, 02:02 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
People are forgetting that roughly the same technology is providing the front axle steer (it's been electric for over a decade now) as the rear axle... pretty sure both are made by ZF.. how many front axle steering systems went out?
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G650 (09-05-2020)