AutoCar loves the 992
05-10-2020, 12:47 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
AutoCar loves the 992
05-10-2020, 01:05 AM
#2
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
What they say about the steering feel in the 992 C4S is so true.
It was true in the 991 C4S and still holds true in the 992 series. To a lesser extent maybe, but still the steering feels like its giving more "road feel" feedback. But I'm not sure it's because the nose is heavier, however.
It was true in the 991 C4S and still holds true in the 992 series. To a lesser extent maybe, but still the steering feels like its giving more "road feel" feedback. But I'm not sure it's because the nose is heavier, however.
And 911 wins
05-10-2020, 03:44 AM
#4
Wow, 911 was so much louder inside.
I suppose no surprise.
I suppose no surprise.
05-10-2020, 08:27 AM
#5
I'm not surprised the M8 didn't do well. That car is a disappointment - it looks just like a Mustang to me.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
05-10-2020, 01:28 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I'm not surprised the M8 didn't do well. That car is a disappointment - it looks just like a Mustang to me.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
Where any E39 felt special when you drove it, even an 528i wagon without Sport Package I was assigned for Valentines Day, every E60 I tried felt like a cheap rental car in terms of its structure as well as its responses…cheap/hollow/vapid by comparison to the E39. Stiffer? Sure. Faster? Yep. More efficient? I believe it. And the M5 and a later 545i Sport Pack car (or whatever it was) were "pretty good," but that undefinable fire was gone. Not that it mattered to BMW. Like the other Bangle cars, E60s sold well and were everywhere in the Bay Area when new. But I very rarely see one on the road now. Instead I see scores of X2s, which look even less distinctive and even more disposable. The only thing that seems "BMW" about them is the badge. Sales numbers may tell a very different tale…even if it's one I lost all interest in a long time ago. With three or four exceptions, the last BMWs I cared about—and still do—are E39s and E36s. A neighbor has a black M6 "coupe" and I will admit it's a looker every time she rolls by, but I've had several drivers I trust say they don't drive like they look. A pity…
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05-10-2020, 01:28 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'm not surprised the M8 didn't do well. That car is a disappointment - it looks just like a Mustang to me.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
05-10-2020, 01:45 PM
#9
It definitely suits the role of a grand tourer with two people. Obviously a third is where it gets silly, but few cars are better for a GT role than a 911 driven with two people. Plenty of storage, decent fuel economy, interior comfort & luxury, and absolute sportiness when desired.
05-11-2020, 04:55 PM
#10
The beginning of the end was already clear in the E60, and not only the M5 but all versions.
Where any E39 felt special when you drove it, even an 528i wagon without Sport Package I was assigned for Valentines Day, every E60 I tried felt like a cheap rental car in terms of its structure as well as its responses…cheap/hollow/vapid by comparison to the E39. Stiffer? Sure. Faster? Yep. More efficient? I believe it. And the M5 and a later 545i Sport Pack car (or whatever it was) were "pretty good," but that undefinable fire was gone. Not that it mattered to BMW. Like the other Bangle cars, E60s sold well and were everywhere in the Bay Area when new. But I very rarely see one on the road now. Instead I see scores of X2s, which look even less distinctive and even more disposable. The only thing that seems "BMW" about them is the badge. Sales numbers may tell a very different tale…even if it's one I lost all interest in a long time ago. With three or four exceptions, the last BMWs I cared about—and still do—are E39s and E36s. A neighbor has a black M6 "coupe" and I will admit it's a looker every time she rolls by, but I've had several drivers I trust say they don't drive like they look. A pity…
Where any E39 felt special when you drove it, even an 528i wagon without Sport Package I was assigned for Valentines Day, every E60 I tried felt like a cheap rental car in terms of its structure as well as its responses…cheap/hollow/vapid by comparison to the E39. Stiffer? Sure. Faster? Yep. More efficient? I believe it. And the M5 and a later 545i Sport Pack car (or whatever it was) were "pretty good," but that undefinable fire was gone. Not that it mattered to BMW. Like the other Bangle cars, E60s sold well and were everywhere in the Bay Area when new. But I very rarely see one on the road now. Instead I see scores of X2s, which look even less distinctive and even more disposable. The only thing that seems "BMW" about them is the badge. Sales numbers may tell a very different tale…even if it's one I lost all interest in a long time ago. With three or four exceptions, the last BMWs I cared about—and still do—are E39s and E36s. A neighbor has a black M6 "coupe" and I will admit it's a looker every time she rolls by, but I've had several drivers I trust say they don't drive like they look. A pity…
I've owned several BMWs -- e36, e46 and e90 in addition to the f90 M5. Despite the hype of the e46, I actually liked the e36 the best. It felt lighter, more tossable and less luxury - more sport. I agree with you , I feel like BMW started really changing with the e46 era of the early 2000s.
05-11-2020, 07:01 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
What do y'all think of the e90 M3?
05-11-2020, 07:46 PM
#12
I had an e90 m3
The engine was awesome - straight up exotic. It made its power up top and was a blast to rev -- the engine sounds absolutely beautiful.
The problem is that the car is heavy and the low end torque of that motor is wanting - it made the car feel sluggish in around the town driving. Drop a few hundred pounds and it would be truly special.
Steering was hydraulic and fantastic. Way better than the crap BMW sells now. Better than Porsche's stuff now, come to think of it.
Either way, it's probably the last analog-ish BMW M car -- and the last NA, bespoke M engine. I'd argue maybe the last "real" M car.
The engine was awesome - straight up exotic. It made its power up top and was a blast to rev -- the engine sounds absolutely beautiful.
The problem is that the car is heavy and the low end torque of that motor is wanting - it made the car feel sluggish in around the town driving. Drop a few hundred pounds and it would be truly special.
Steering was hydraulic and fantastic. Way better than the crap BMW sells now. Better than Porsche's stuff now, come to think of it.
Either way, it's probably the last analog-ish BMW M car -- and the last NA, bespoke M engine. I'd argue maybe the last "real" M car.
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stevensivak (05-12-2020)
05-11-2020, 07:55 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I guess, I have to chime in here. I own 2 E30M3s and track them. I also owned an e46M3 which was my DD. Nothing BMW made after 1992 comes close to the E30M3. After the E46 generation, the cars got a lot heavier, less reliable and for me, less fun to drive. I had always wanted a Porsche but the E30M3s were a good substitute. Now, parts are NLA, stuff like blocks, heads, you know, things you need to keep the car running. I decided my next DD would be a Porsche as for me, it represents what the E30M3 could have become in a modern car. Not what BMW makes now. IMO, the Porsche is the spiritual successor to the E30M3.
05-11-2020, 09:31 PM
#14
Advanced
I'm not surprised the M8 didn't do well. That car is a disappointment - it looks just like a Mustang to me.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
I had an M5 competition that I sold - that was a good sedan but, at the end of the day, it was not special. The steering was poor - completely nonexistent feel. When I read an interview with BMW's driving dynamics expert, I knew that all was lost:
“We surveyed both current BMW 5-series customers and owners of competitive models, asking, ‘What are your wishes?’ We have two million customers around the globe who’ve purchased the 5-series during the past five years, which results in a broad spread of demands. Our job is to fulfill those mainstream needs.
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
That M5 is probably the last BMW I'll ever own.
Had two e39 m5’s 2000, and a 2003, even my then under 12 year old kids remember those cars, the e60 M5 that followed lasted less than two years, the soul was gone. Of all the cars I have owned/sold over my lifetime the 2003 e39 was the one I wish were still in the garage.
05-12-2020, 12:19 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
It's sad. Growing up in the 80s, BMW had an uncompromising spartan vibe - black interiors with no wood and a bunch of buttons and a dash unapologetically angled towards the driver. They had a point of view and they let the market come to them.
I've owned several BMWs -- e36, e46 and e90 in addition to the f90 M5. Despite the hype of the e46, I actually liked the e36 the best. It felt lighter, more tossable and less luxury - more sport. I agree with you , I feel like BMW started really changing with the e46 era of the early 2000s.
I've owned several BMWs -- e36, e46 and e90 in addition to the f90 M5. Despite the hype of the e46, I actually liked the e36 the best. It felt lighter, more tossable and less luxury - more sport. I agree with you , I feel like BMW started really changing with the e46 era of the early 2000s.
And yes on the 1980s. Back then, any BMW spotted was special, even a 528e. Those dashboards. The look. The alloys. The whole thing. Even if they were conservative, they were somehow special and set apart. And every now and then you'd catch a glimpse of an Alpina, a Hartge, or an H&B car. Or maybe an early Dinan car. Then the good stuff started coming here from the factory. M6. M5. M3. Smaller bumpers, and more sporting looks. 1989 on got pretty juicy for the E30, and then the E34 dropped with some of the best four-door looks ever.
I had an e90 m3
The engine was awesome - straight up exotic. It made its power up top and was a blast to rev -- the engine sounds absolutely beautiful.
The problem is that the car is heavy and the low end torque of that motor is wanting - it made the car feel sluggish in around the town driving. Drop a few hundred pounds and it would be truly special.
Steering was hydraulic and fantastic. Way better than the crap BMW sells now. Better than Porsche's stuff now, come to think of it.
Either way, it's probably the last analog-ish BMW M car -- and the last NA, bespoke M engine. I'd argue maybe the last "real" M car.
The engine was awesome - straight up exotic. It made its power up top and was a blast to rev -- the engine sounds absolutely beautiful.
The problem is that the car is heavy and the low end torque of that motor is wanting - it made the car feel sluggish in around the town driving. Drop a few hundred pounds and it would be truly special.
Steering was hydraulic and fantastic. Way better than the crap BMW sells now. Better than Porsche's stuff now, come to think of it.
Either way, it's probably the last analog-ish BMW M car -- and the last NA, bespoke M engine. I'd argue maybe the last "real" M car.
E90 engine > E46 engine.
E46 chassis > E90 chassis.
And yet I'd rather have a nice E30 or E36 than either.
I guess, I have to chime in here. I own 2 E30M3s and track them. I also owned an e46M3 which was my DD. Nothing BMW made after 1992 comes close to the E30M3. After the E46 generation, the cars got a lot heavier, less reliable and for me, less fun to drive. I had always wanted a Porsche but the E30M3s were a good substitute. Now, parts are NLA, stuff like blocks, heads, you know, things you need to keep the car running. I decided my next DD would be a Porsche as for me, it represents what the E30M3 could have become in a modern car. Not what BMW makes now. IMO, the Porsche is the spiritual successor to the E30M3.
Had two e39 m5’s 2000, and a 2003, even my then under 12 year old kids remember those cars, the e60 M5 that followed lasted less than two years, the soul was gone. Of all the cars I have owned/sold over my lifetime the 2003 e39 was the one I wish were still in the garage.
But a lot could be done with the E39 M5 chassis…and those cars were the perfect size for a mid-size sport sedan.