992 track day
10-10-2019, 12:22 PM
#16
Instructor
Initial impressions from a track day with a C4S:
Pre-track upgrade: Cup2s. Stock brakes.
First and most important IMO. The car drives large. Not so much the weight (although it is a bit of a porker), but I needed to relearn the rotation and apex coming from a C2 base. Nothing major, the car actually accepts mid curve corrections without any major issue. Likely combination of PSM, 4wd, and mechanical differential. Not me.
Brakes, while better than base are inadequate to say the least. I think it's related to the pads/fluid in combination with poor driving skills and I could not gauge the electric brake boost being the culprit. I wanted to see what I was dealing with, so I kept it stock for this day. I could say it was a significant error. At least change the fluid to SRF. I boiled driving 9/10th for too long. It's a short track without much in the cooling the brakes. More like a giant Autocross, not my favorite at all. That's where the high hp and weight combine to show that this is not a "track car". I believe a combo of SRF and pagids/ endless will remediate that. I didn't want to change pads bc it's the end of the season and I didn't feel like sounding louder than a dump truck. The discs I think they can be used until their life, then I'll see what's available.
The 18 way seats are phenomenal. The seatbelt will tighten the first time you brake hard and will stay that way for the session. The car builds up speed very quickly, it's very fast on corners, the steering is very responsive. The chassi is just unbelievably composed on the bends. Sliding optional, easy to correct.
Typical Porsche, improved a little bit in all corners to make it into a better overall car. That's coming from the fabulous 991 and 991.2.
So, the usual, work your brakes before going to the track. The Goodyear tires I didn't bother to try.
Pre-track upgrade: Cup2s. Stock brakes.
First and most important IMO. The car drives large. Not so much the weight (although it is a bit of a porker), but I needed to relearn the rotation and apex coming from a C2 base. Nothing major, the car actually accepts mid curve corrections without any major issue. Likely combination of PSM, 4wd, and mechanical differential. Not me.
Brakes, while better than base are inadequate to say the least. I think it's related to the pads/fluid in combination with poor driving skills and I could not gauge the electric brake boost being the culprit. I wanted to see what I was dealing with, so I kept it stock for this day. I could say it was a significant error. At least change the fluid to SRF. I boiled driving 9/10th for too long. It's a short track without much in the cooling the brakes. More like a giant Autocross, not my favorite at all. That's where the high hp and weight combine to show that this is not a "track car". I believe a combo of SRF and pagids/ endless will remediate that. I didn't want to change pads bc it's the end of the season and I didn't feel like sounding louder than a dump truck. The discs I think they can be used until their life, then I'll see what's available.
The 18 way seats are phenomenal. The seatbelt will tighten the first time you brake hard and will stay that way for the session. The car builds up speed very quickly, it's very fast on corners, the steering is very responsive. The chassi is just unbelievably composed on the bends. Sliding optional, easy to correct.
Typical Porsche, improved a little bit in all corners to make it into a better overall car. That's coming from the fabulous 991 and 991.2.
So, the usual, work your brakes before going to the track. The Goodyear tires I didn't bother to try.
Id strongly also suggest to upgrade the tyres to Cup2's if using for track days also.
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Boris Leenaars (10-11-2019)
10-10-2019, 03:20 PM
#18
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the steering feel with the Cup2s is closer to the GT3. The improvement from the 991.2 base or GTS is significant. Closer doesn’t mean equal or similar. It’s just better than the .2 non-gt
The SPASM suspension is a major progress from the 991.2, but my prior car was a cab, so no sport suspension. Compared to the GTS coupe I drove at PSDS, it seems stiffer and more compliant in different situations, a bit bizarre, I know. Around the bends it’s quite better than the .2, Compared to the GT, still ways to go but that’s part of the compromise of driving it in the streets and keeping your teeth fillings intact. As many non-gt cars, it’s more forgiving if you clip the curbs. That’s an excellent thing for noobs like me. The gt3 when well driven it’s a thing to watch. When poorly driven it’s just sad.
the car feels and drives wide if compared to the base, GTS and GT3. The spatial feeling is similar to the GT3 RS. Now, that is not a direct translation on how well the car feels on the track. The largeness of the RS does not translate in added difficulty. In the 992 I think there’s a learning curve to drive it better on the track.
the noise is more comparable to the GTS, obviously. It’s louder but the pitch is a bit off. Once Soul releases sport cats I’ll probably block or remove the symposer. GT noise is unique and awesome.
brakes are inadequate, period. But so are the GTS. Track rats replace pads across the board. On the .2 I could get away with pagids all around, but this car may require an upgrade to better 350 mm discs or 380 mm with new calipers. Pagids or endless plus SRF. I can’t compare fade to the GT cars as all of the PSDS had PCCB. I’d expect the iron brakes on the GT cars to be superior, but perhaps still need upgraded pads and fluid. That’s up to gt owners to know.
In my opinion, cars are meant to be driven. I Think the 992 is a better compromise for eventual track days than the .2. Not as good as the GT3s, but it got closed the gap (which is still big). I think the Gt3 will close the gap to the RS on this platform, depending on how much Porsche purposely tames the GT3.
so, there’s better and worse things from the prior similar cars, overall improvement. I think I’ll be able to drive this car properly after a learning curve. I had only a session and a half bc of the boiling fluid and lame brakes.
If the RS is 5/95 (street/track), the GT3 10/90, the .2 GTS 70/30, the base .2 80/20, the 992 C4S would be 75/25. I don’t know if this makes sense to all. Those numbers vary with mods, seats, brakes, tires, quality of roads, winter, capabilities, ADM etc
PS- my camber is OEM, no overuse of outer tires or significant understeer. I may go with neg 1.3 for the next track season. Tires don’t last long anyways and that doesn’t make it much worse to daily drive
Last edited by John Mclane; 10-10-2019 at 03:58 PM.
The following 5 users liked this post by John Mclane:
Black Stig (10-13-2020),
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seatactony (10-10-2019)
10-10-2019, 05:40 PM
#19
I drove the GT3 and GT3 RS at the Porsche driving school a couple of times. Perhaps a comparison would ver more appropriate if you add the 991.2 base and GTS
the steering feel with the Cup2s is closer to the GT3. The improvement from the 991.2 base or GTS is significant. Closer doesn’t mean equal or similar. It’s just better than the .2 non-gt
The SPASM suspension is a major progress from the 991.2, but my prior car was a cab, so no sport suspension. Compared to the GTS coupe I drove at PSDS, it seems stiffer and more compliant in different situations, a bit bizarre, I know. Around the bends it’s quite better than the .2, Compared to the GT, still ways to go but that’s part of the compromise of driving it in the streets and keeping your teeth fillings intact. As many non-gt cars, it’s more forgiving if you clip the curbs. That’s an excellent thing for noobs like me. The gt3 when well driven it’s a thing to watch. When poorly driven it’s just sad.
the car feels and drives wide if compared to the base, GTS and GT3. The spatial feeling is similar to the GT3 RS. Now, that is not a direct translation on how well the car feels on the track. The largeness of the RS does not translate in added difficulty. In the 992 I think there’s a learning curve to drive it better on the track.
the noise is more comparable to the GTS, obviously. It’s louder but the pitch is a bit off. Once Soul releases sport cats I’ll probably block or remove the symposer. GT noise is unique and awesome.
brakes are inadequate, period. But so are the GTS. Track rats replace pads across the board. On the .2 I could get away with pagids all around, but this car may require an upgrade to better 350 mm discs or 380 mm with new calipers. Pagids or endless plus SRF. I can’t compare fade to the GT cars as all of the PSDS had PCCB. I’d expect the iron brakes on the GT cars to be superior, but perhaps still need upgraded pads and fluid. That’s up to gt owners to know.
In my opinion, cars are meant to be driven. I Think the 992 is a better compromise for eventual track days than the .2. Not as good as the GT3s, but it got closed the gap (which is still big). I think the Gt3 will close the gap to the RS on this platform, depending on how much Porsche purposely tames the GT3.
so, there’s better and worse things from the prior similar cars, overall improvement. I think I’ll be able to drive this car properly after a learning curve. I had only a session and a half bc of the boiling fluid and lame brakes.
If the RS is 5/95 (street/track), the GT3 10/90, the .2 GTS 70/30, the base .2 80/20, the 992 C4S would be 75/25. I don’t know if this makes sense to all. Those numbers vary with mods, seats, brakes, tires, quality of roads, winter, capabilities, ADM etc
PS- my camber is OEM, no overuse of outer tires or significant understeer. I may go with neg 1.3 for the next track season. Tires don’t last long anyways and that doesn’t make it much worse to daily drive
the steering feel with the Cup2s is closer to the GT3. The improvement from the 991.2 base or GTS is significant. Closer doesn’t mean equal or similar. It’s just better than the .2 non-gt
The SPASM suspension is a major progress from the 991.2, but my prior car was a cab, so no sport suspension. Compared to the GTS coupe I drove at PSDS, it seems stiffer and more compliant in different situations, a bit bizarre, I know. Around the bends it’s quite better than the .2, Compared to the GT, still ways to go but that’s part of the compromise of driving it in the streets and keeping your teeth fillings intact. As many non-gt cars, it’s more forgiving if you clip the curbs. That’s an excellent thing for noobs like me. The gt3 when well driven it’s a thing to watch. When poorly driven it’s just sad.
the car feels and drives wide if compared to the base, GTS and GT3. The spatial feeling is similar to the GT3 RS. Now, that is not a direct translation on how well the car feels on the track. The largeness of the RS does not translate in added difficulty. In the 992 I think there’s a learning curve to drive it better on the track.
the noise is more comparable to the GTS, obviously. It’s louder but the pitch is a bit off. Once Soul releases sport cats I’ll probably block or remove the symposer. GT noise is unique and awesome.
brakes are inadequate, period. But so are the GTS. Track rats replace pads across the board. On the .2 I could get away with pagids all around, but this car may require an upgrade to better 350 mm discs or 380 mm with new calipers. Pagids or endless plus SRF. I can’t compare fade to the GT cars as all of the PSDS had PCCB. I’d expect the iron brakes on the GT cars to be superior, but perhaps still need upgraded pads and fluid. That’s up to gt owners to know.
In my opinion, cars are meant to be driven. I Think the 992 is a better compromise for eventual track days than the .2. Not as good as the GT3s, but it got closed the gap (which is still big). I think the Gt3 will close the gap to the RS on this platform, depending on how much Porsche purposely tames the GT3.
so, there’s better and worse things from the prior similar cars, overall improvement. I think I’ll be able to drive this car properly after a learning curve. I had only a session and a half bc of the boiling fluid and lame brakes.
If the RS is 5/95 (street/track), the GT3 10/90, the .2 GTS 70/30, the base .2 80/20, the 992 C4S would be 75/25. I don’t know if this makes sense to all. Those numbers vary with mods, seats, brakes, tires, quality of roads, winter, capabilities, ADM etc
PS- my camber is OEM, no overuse of outer tires or significant understeer. I may go with neg 1.3 for the next track season. Tires don’t last long anyways and that doesn’t make it much worse to daily drive
Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
11-24-2019, 05:55 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Not yet. Need to get one. :-)
I haven’t had a Porsche in over a decade, and the last one I had was a Cayenne (really it was my wife’s). But I saw a couple comments on this thread, and obviously you are doing it, too, and I totally agree: everybody who gets a Porsche (Boxster, Cayman, or 911) should take it to at least one track day. Or honestly, even an autocross. I’m not sure you’ll fully appreciate what these cars are made to do otherwise. Spirited driving on the streets is fun, and can be relatively safe, but hanging it all out (and even exceeding limits and seeing what happens in the relatively safe environment of a track) is one of the most exhilarating things you can do, IMHO.
I haven’t had a Porsche in over a decade, and the last one I had was a Cayenne (really it was my wife’s). But I saw a couple comments on this thread, and obviously you are doing it, too, and I totally agree: everybody who gets a Porsche (Boxster, Cayman, or 911) should take it to at least one track day. Or honestly, even an autocross. I’m not sure you’ll fully appreciate what these cars are made to do otherwise. Spirited driving on the streets is fun, and can be relatively safe, but hanging it all out (and even exceeding limits and seeing what happens in the relatively safe environment of a track) is one of the most exhilarating things you can do, IMHO.
11-25-2019, 03:16 AM
#22
Took delivery of my 992 the day before I had to leave on a 11 day trip, so I haven’t actually driven it yet!
However, I booked a session in a 992 C2S equipped with sport package and RAS, just like my own car, at PEC LA three weeks ago, so that I could get a chance to wring the car out, and test both it’s and my own limits. I came away VERY impressed with the car. I should add that I did a similar session in a 991.2 GTS back in February, and I think I’d say that I like the performance and handling of the 992-S even better.
The 992 does seem to have a little less rear weight bias than the 991, and at times, such as on the low friction handling circuit, I found this to be somewhat of a detriment as it took some of the “fun” out of the experience, but overall I did find the 992-S easier to balance and point than the 991 GTS. I noticed this to be especially helpful when my inexperience and exuberance led to me braking too late for some corners, causing me to think “Oh this is going to be ugly!”, only to have the 992 gleefully turn in and hold with only the mildest of protest from the understeering front tires which was easily correctable. I was constantly impressed with the high levels of grip and G force that this car can sustain, but if there’s one characteristic about this car that stands out for me, it is the almost neutral balance it exhibits. It simply behaves more like a mid-engine car than you would think possible.
My instructor, who’s been racing Cayman GT4’s for over a decade, commented that he feels this car handles as good or possibly better than a Ferrari 488 Pista. In his words, “It let’s a B level driver achieve A level speeds”.
I’m definitely going to get more track time in the future, my only dilemma is whether I do it in my own car, or pay to rent one?
Im also considering spending a couple of grand to get a few hours in the advanced GT3 course.
However, I booked a session in a 992 C2S equipped with sport package and RAS, just like my own car, at PEC LA three weeks ago, so that I could get a chance to wring the car out, and test both it’s and my own limits. I came away VERY impressed with the car. I should add that I did a similar session in a 991.2 GTS back in February, and I think I’d say that I like the performance and handling of the 992-S even better.
The 992 does seem to have a little less rear weight bias than the 991, and at times, such as on the low friction handling circuit, I found this to be somewhat of a detriment as it took some of the “fun” out of the experience, but overall I did find the 992-S easier to balance and point than the 991 GTS. I noticed this to be especially helpful when my inexperience and exuberance led to me braking too late for some corners, causing me to think “Oh this is going to be ugly!”, only to have the 992 gleefully turn in and hold with only the mildest of protest from the understeering front tires which was easily correctable. I was constantly impressed with the high levels of grip and G force that this car can sustain, but if there’s one characteristic about this car that stands out for me, it is the almost neutral balance it exhibits. It simply behaves more like a mid-engine car than you would think possible.
My instructor, who’s been racing Cayman GT4’s for over a decade, commented that he feels this car handles as good or possibly better than a Ferrari 488 Pista. In his words, “It let’s a B level driver achieve A level speeds”.
I’m definitely going to get more track time in the future, my only dilemma is whether I do it in my own car, or pay to rent one?
Im also considering spending a couple of grand to get a few hours in the advanced GT3 course.
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G650 (11-25-2019)
11-25-2019, 10:12 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by G650
Took delivery of my 992 the day before I had to leave on a 11 day trip, so I haven’t actually driven it yet!
However, I booked a session in a 992 C2S equipped with sport package and RAS, just like my own car, at PEC LA three weeks ago, so that I could get a chance to wring the car out, and test both it’s and my own limits. I came away VERY impressed with the car. I should add that I did a similar session in a 991.2 GTS back in February, and I think I’d say that I like the performance and handling of the 992-S even better.
My instructor, who’s been racing Cayman GT4’s for over a decade, commented that he feels this car handles as good or possibly better than a Ferrari 488 Pista. In his words, “It let’s a B level driver achieve A level speeds”.
.
However, I booked a session in a 992 C2S equipped with sport package and RAS, just like my own car, at PEC LA three weeks ago, so that I could get a chance to wring the car out, and test both it’s and my own limits. I came away VERY impressed with the car. I should add that I did a similar session in a 991.2 GTS back in February, and I think I’d say that I like the performance and handling of the 992-S even better.
My instructor, who’s been racing Cayman GT4’s for over a decade, commented that he feels this car handles as good or possibly better than a Ferrari 488 Pista. In his words, “It let’s a B level driver achieve A level speeds”.
.
Once you drive the 992 at 9/10th, you will feel the limitations, mainly tires and brakes, depending on the track. The car brings the same issues with brake cooling from the 991. Seems to me that they engineered the car for eventual track days, lead follow and AutoX.
If you want to press the car for a full DE session, work is needed on tires and brakes. The camber I left neutral and seemed to be fine, but I think I'll go 1.3 neg for the next season. Bigger brakes, proper pads and SRF.
01-09-2020, 12:41 AM
#25
01-09-2020, 12:25 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by PPS
Hi John,
Yes, I do.
Got a 4S and it is upgraded with discs from Ap racing (Essex parts) race pads, fluid from Endless, same Cup2 set up as you use and then JRZ RSPro3 coilovers with camber plates.
Yes, I do.
Got a 4S and it is upgraded with discs from Ap racing (Essex parts) race pads, fluid from Endless, same Cup2 set up as you use and then JRZ RSPro3 coilovers with camber plates.
The suspension I may not be able to fiddle too much as it's my DD and my driveway is slowly chipping away the front...
01-09-2020, 12:41 PM
#27
That's a nice setup. I'm looking into a very similar end result for the next season. The AP parts fitted without any hassle, correct? Allegedly the braking system is a carryover from the 991.2, except the brake booster (now electric).
The suspension I may not be able to fiddle too much as it's my DD and my driveway is slowly chipping away the front...
The suspension I may not be able to fiddle too much as it's my DD and my driveway is slowly chipping away the front...
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KEEPUP (12-05-2020)
01-09-2020, 04:22 PM
#28
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I'm considering changing the calipers as well to facilitate brake pad replacement. That's an added advantage of the rad-cal design. Also better cooling which is a major handicap in this car as well the 991.2.
The OEM calipers are a bit of a pain, plus the need to add studs so no thread wear happens (happens to my prior 991.2). I may use some pagids for now, as the discs are scorched anyways. I have endless fluid now, but I'm a fan of SRF.
Fact is that this car is a porker, albeit a capable one. I like it better than the TTS, mostly because of the suspension. I'm curious what Porsche will use for iron braking on the GT3. Apparently the PCCB will be a 10 pot in the front.
The OEM calipers are a bit of a pain, plus the need to add studs so no thread wear happens (happens to my prior 991.2). I may use some pagids for now, as the discs are scorched anyways. I have endless fluid now, but I'm a fan of SRF.
Fact is that this car is a porker, albeit a capable one. I like it better than the TTS, mostly because of the suspension. I'm curious what Porsche will use for iron braking on the GT3. Apparently the PCCB will be a 10 pot in the front.
01-09-2020, 04:59 PM
#29
I'm considering changing the calipers as well to facilitate brake pad replacement. That's an added advantage of the rad-cal design. Also better cooling which is a major handicap in this car as well the 991.2.
The OEM calipers are a bit of a pain, plus the need to add studs so no thread wear happens (happens to my prior 991.2). I may use some pagids for now, as the discs are scorched anyways. I have endless fluid now, but I'm a fan of SRF.
Fact is that this car is a porker, albeit a capable one. I like it better than the TTS, mostly because of the suspension. I'm curious what Porsche will use for iron braking on the GT3. Apparently the PCCB will be a 10 pot in the front.
The OEM calipers are a bit of a pain, plus the need to add studs so no thread wear happens (happens to my prior 991.2). I may use some pagids for now, as the discs are scorched anyways. I have endless fluid now, but I'm a fan of SRF.
Fact is that this car is a porker, albeit a capable one. I like it better than the TTS, mostly because of the suspension. I'm curious what Porsche will use for iron braking on the GT3. Apparently the PCCB will be a 10 pot in the front.
Not sure if I will do much more mods to this one as I am on the list for the GT3. Most likely I will drive it to the end of this coming summer, make it stock again and then let the dealer put it up for sale and wait for the GT3.
The question then on the coming GT3 is to get steel and do the radi cal or go for PCCB... I have never braked like the radi cal - not even on PCCB that my previous car had before I changed them.
One thing though, it will get double wishbone instead of McPhaerson - which will make it a lot easier on the chassi side.
03-03-2020, 04:41 PM
#30
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Hello Gents,
We have officially released our 2-piece AP Racing J Hook Discs and Ferodo Racing Brake Pads for the 992. We're working on confirming fitment of our complete AP Racing Radi-CAL Brake Kits. You can see the pad and disc info here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1184...l#post16458750
Thanks for looking!
We have officially released our 2-piece AP Racing J Hook Discs and Ferodo Racing Brake Pads for the 992. We're working on confirming fitment of our complete AP Racing Radi-CAL Brake Kits. You can see the pad and disc info here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1184...l#post16458750
Thanks for looking!
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com