fxz

duplicated

fxz

I don t remember any press release weight or pdk or a complain...

anyway as of today the marketing game changed just look the political one when spending $ on the so called internet social media to effectively influence the audience

and as of today there s not anymore a brand , and who ever has a personal interest, not paying obsessive attention (including post release dealers travested as forum users..) to how their "beloved" customer react...go figure if any carzine death industry jurnos has still the power to go against the mainstream...

STG

I don't recall any negative reviews. Obviously with any reviews, they do tread on the positives and possibly some negatives or concerns. These modern day "reviews" are pretty much fluff anyway. All sugar coated with these wanna be YouTube stars wanting the freebies to continue rolling in. They like the access and status.

Would like to see some links posted to the mentioned negative reviews ...


I'm quite surprised that any perceived negatives about the new car are taken so personally to some members. You'd think that you called their child ugly or insulated their wife. Then the insults start to anyone not agreeing with their opinion.

Of course the spammers and blatant "new users" who don't have this forum in their best interest don't do any good for anyone and glad the moderators have been taking care of them.

It's only a car guys. You like it, don't like, or kinda like it. Who cares. Participate in whatever thread strikes a cord with you.

stout

Sure.

Your underlying hypothesis, which is cynical yet not without merit, has certainly been disproven over the last 50~ years, or 5~ for that matter. Of course I'm likely to look at your words—which paint the whole of my industry with a broad, dismissive brush—with a level of personal bias, but there are professionals in this game I have a lot of respect for. Reviewers who can be trusted for an honest, professional evaluation—one they can stand behind, one that customers are likely to find credible when they eventually get behind the wheel themselves, and one that will stand the test of time. The best will acknowledge limitations (time, location, skill, etc) and excel anyway, providing useful early intel. The worst are, of course, in it for themselves and phone it in. In other words, you have…people.

But I do think you sorely overestimate the "personal upside" of press trips—speaking for myself, anyway. While I can certainly understand why they look like quite a vacation/perk—yes, you fly business, get to drive new cars, and often have a chance to interact with the people behind them—work is eventually work, and a U.S. writer usually travels for 60~ hours to be on the ground in Europe for 36-44 hours. Those coming from, say, Asia or Australia have it worse. Over 3-4 days, most are lucky to get 10-15 hours of sleep—and many typically end up with more work due as a result of the trip. Plus what they missed. The saving grace for me has been a focus on a single (and very interesting) car company, and thus a chance at some continuity in terms of faces, a bigger picture, and a longer conversation.

But, rather than words to your words, and since I don't much like commenting on my colleagues publicly, here are two concrete examples that address your challenge:

Noted the 997.1 GT3 lost some magic despite its gains over the 996.2 GT3:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...f-997-gt3.html

Noted that this was the first GT3 I had no interest in owning, this before the official press launch...
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771763&referrerid=50308

More recently, I noted my sense that the 981 Spyder was improved in every way but no longer inspired (sure to go down well with 981 Spyder owners, many of whom are both friends as well as keen drivers I respect…), and that Porsche could learn a thing or two from the Ducati Scrambler and Fiat 500 Abarth—publishing both in paper and ink. Flip side to that is that, when I praise something, I mean it. And, luckily, I am not exactly reviewing Omni GLHs. The bar is, generally speaking, quite high. And I like that. It's engaging. And challenging.

One could read your dismissal of reviewers as a similar accusation leveled at those who work at the car companies: They're unprofessional, too, expecting/encouraging others to lie or purposely fail to do their jobs. That hasn't been my take. Do PR managers, designers, and engineers want positive reviews? Sure they do. That's natural enough. Wouldn't you, if it was your work or your team? But, do they also appreciate honest, professional, useful feedback? In my experience, the answer has usually been…they definitely do.

Don't, however, lose that grain of salt. I carry a few around with me, too, and they do come in handy!

STG

Stout, you're the exception. A man of these people here. None of these other guys would be caught dead here because it doesn't give them a YouTube view. On the other hand, will likely be the reason for your long term success.

stout

^ Nah, there are other good ones out there, too. As in anything, they're just a bit trickier to find. And when you do, support them.

As for engaging on the forums, only an idiot of an editor would do so, I've been told. Well, shucks…

STG

^^ There's some good stuff on here and some pretty knowledgeable guys with good taste. You just have to put the time in and filter through the BS (like that nasty Hate 992 thread) which many people would never take the time to do. Keep up the good work P.

groundhog

I agree there are good ones out there - one simply has to listen or read carefully, there can be plenty of nuance. In the case of Henrys video review, his grin is a give away - he's clearly enjoying himself.

However, I would make the following point with the 992 reviews - all seem to come from top spec cars in terms of performance goodies. This makes a very big difference to the feel, handling and general dynamics of the 991 and no doubt the 992. So, a new buyer unfamiliar with Porsche might think "wow' and then buy a 911 without the fruit and be a little disappointed. Long short, some don't see the line in the round.

fxz

Guys let s be realistic on a car magazine long time ago, you could still find some true analysis because the magazine was sustained by the ppl buying it, the car industry tried already to soften it buying pages and pages of sponsored advertisment, so from a straight criticism you had to start reading between the lines, then we had that kind of pirate bay called internet or youtube where still someone tried to build through the ppl likes credibility some sort of revenue to be able to go against the mainstream, just a matter of time for the car manufacters to invest rather than buying magazine pages as in the past, straight on the so called internet influencers, just open a today youtube car review and you will find a chorus of smiling chickens drifting here n there convincing you that the car is brilliant (so far not necessary to say excluding Stout and indeed my preferred one Dr Randy Pobst)

i hope one day professionals could say no thanks to manufacters paid press presentation which turns everything,
in the very best cases, into a diplomacy and art of being politically correct so to avoid a next time exclusion,

i know GT3 will arrive etc etc but
fake tail tips, electric door handles
the bacon third light, the nubbin, videogame interior, no special 2S engine, etc. what will be the next 995??
Oh yes the 992 drives faster because it is more mid engine
What a relief!

They re not in a pre crisis situation like in the past, a lot of profits for RnD, so is not cynical to pretend more than reworked Audis and a so so 992

Damn a 911 ethos with his engine in the Wrong position is to be outlaw not a fat Beetle in Panda sauce!

i hope anyone can sell so many of their nice magazine or youtube reviews and that so many here can lend them any brand new car for the next decades to restore some kind of that true journalism of the early days

Argon_

Quite a few when the Cayman lost its flat six. Also, reviews by Jason Cammisa.

EDIT: Having just watched the review, he seemed to actually enjoy the car, not just parrot a positive script.

Doug H

I am more surprised that some get so worked up about others having a positive view of the car that they have to crash those threads and question their motives or objectivity.

Post counts, strange obsessive disorders and mere ownership of 1 or 2 911s does not make one knowledgeable in the least. There are, however, some on this forum that have owned a litany of 911s over long periods of time and have spent years racing and driving 911s spanning all generation of cars.

chuckbdc

The trolls have gotten so repetitious that hey look more and more foolish.

bmcginn

I’d love to find comments about the 996 when it was introduced. As the first water cooled 911, my recollection is the Porsche buying public was convinced the earth was going to spin off its axis. How could a 911 ever be created with an engine that was water cooled? What is Porsche thinking? You know what, everything changes and technology always wins.

stout

^ Got hammered in 1998 (maybe on Pelican?) for liking the 996 C2 3.4. A lot. My point back then, and I think it holds up now despite the way the market has valued both cars: You can complain about the water, the looks, the interior quality, the lack of a glovebox, etc....you can get into nostalgia....and I won't differ with you on any of it...but....drive a 1998 Carrera and a 1999 Carrera down the same good road and it's impossible to say the 996 isn't a huge improvement in terms of handling, brakes, and (I think) engine—which is more elastic, eager, revvier, and more fun in use.

Funny thing was, years later there was a thread on Pelican by a guy who "discovered" just how good the 996 C2 3.4 was, and man did he rave about it. Drove a bunch of 996 GT3s recently, and while some things about them felt starkly old, I sure did like the size and placeability. The 911 is on its own journey, and the good news is few if any of the stops are anything less than brilliant.

Needsdecaf

Go watch Henry's review of the 720S during it's original launch in Italy. And his recent one this week of the 720S Track pack. He calls a spade a spade and isn't afraid to say "it's not for me". In fact, in his latest video, he says that the 570S is all you need unless you just want more speed. And this is a car that universally everyone thinks is wonderful.

So while I'm sure he tempers his negative remarks as we would all do, he seems to be pretty honest about his assessment.