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M-Engineering: Addicted to Meth - 992 TTS gets meth injection
Hey Rennlist,
I wanted to share and educate the community a bit on one of our favorite power mods on the 992, meth injection. This was a really fun video and write-up to make, so enjoy!
What is methanol injection?
Methanol injection is the process of spraying methanol (CH3OH) which is a simple form of alcohol into the intake tract of your engine. On the 992, it is sprayed after the intercooler yet before the throttle body.
Why spray methanol?
It makes LOTS of power! Spraying methanol has several beneficial factors.
1. Cooling - This is the primary reason for spraying meth. As the methanol enters the intake tract and is atomized, the intake air temperatures drop significantly. This allows for denser cooler air to enter the combustion chamber thus creating more power as a result. The 992 platform is plagued with heatsoaking, and when heatsoak does occur, power drops a lot.
2. Octane - Methanol has really high octane properties. While we primarily spray it for cooling, the added octane allows us to also command more boost and increase ignition timing.
3. Intake valve cleaning - This one is not talked about enough! On the 9A1 and 9A2 engines, direct injection is utilized instead of port injection. Since we no longer have our fuel injectors spraying fuel on the intake valves (they spray directly into the combustion chamber), the intake valves are no longer "self cleaned". When spraying meth, we are now re-introducing fuel that touches the intake valves and cleans off all of the gunk. We have seen 9A1 engines need intake valve cleaning as soon as 50k miles before! This is a total PITA job and requires engine out. So by spraying meth, you are also cleaning up engine gunk and potentially delaying/eliminating some major cleaning services.
How do I know meth is good for me?
Meth is bad for human consumption...Normally, meth is sprayed on higher hp applications such as big turbo upgrades, but as you can see in the below demonstration, it works great to add power on stock turbos as well. If you live in a climate or drive in conditions that heat soak your car quickly, meth may be a good option for you. It's especially good for drag racing applications where long 1/4 mile passes or 1/2 mile passes increase temps and as a result pull power back. Meth injection is also a great mod for those who have poor or no access to race gas. Meth can work great with regular pump gas!
What is required to run methanol injections?
First and foremost, you must be running an upgraded intercooler and couple it with a meth injection kit. The CSF intercooler for the 992 comes with bungs/provisions on the neck already that you can install your meth nozzles on. Additionally, you need to be able to run tuning software that allows the end user to datalog and verify things look good and safe. M-Tuner is the best option as end users can datalog during their ProTuning session and have it verified by our calibration team. A ProTune is required for running meth. It is simply not possible to run a meth "off the shelf" map safely. Fuel trims and targets must be appropriately set and verified.
How much power will my car make?
Well, every car is different and it all depends on your fueling and other mods. But, in general, expect to pick up around 70whp or so from standard pump gas tunes on turbo applications.
Is it safe?
Absolutely! We always recommend professional installation and also highly recommend setting up your meth gauge so that you can monitor that it is indeed spraying or if you are running low. It is vital that you are running the correct calibration on your car as well. If you plan on driving the car with meth spraying, make sure it's running a meth compatible map. Vice versa!
Ok M-Engineering...let's see some data.
Ask and you shall receive.
For this first screenshot of a datalog, let's look at a pull with NO meth spraying. This is done on a mainline ProHub dyno (our South Florida Dyno Facility) and is a 992 turbo with stock turbos on pump gas. The white line represents RPM and this screenshot is a 5th gear pull up to redline. The blue line is what we are going to really compare. This is our intake air temperature (IAT). At the start of the pull, the IATs are around 41 degrees celcius and by the end of the pull, they have climbed all the way up to 61C! This is a delta of 20 degrees from a single pull. When temps get this hot, torque requests are lower and power loss can become present. You can also imagine when doing back to back pulls or moving to other gears, the warm air temps just keep carrying over and climbing.
Ok, now let's take a look at meth spraying this time. Before we do a pull with meth, we always purge the system to get any air bubbles out of the lines. This also gets us to have cooler starting temps. This start temp of these runs with meth spraying is about 28C. You will notice the blue line looks like a pretty different shape too! Since our meth system is boost pressure referenced, it starts spraying at around 10psi. You can see this happen in the graph right around the 4000rpm mark where the blue line takes a dip. As the pull goes on up to redline, temps do still climb but hardly. By the end of the pull, temps are sitting at around 36C. This is a HUGE drop in pressure. Another thing you may notice too is boost pressure (yellow curve). We have a much more stable boost curve and no drop-offs and weird timing events due to high temps pulling power out.
And finally, here is a video of meth in-action. Enjoy!
That is some great information. Have you ever had a failure of one of these systems? (parts failure, not install error) Is there any recommended maintenance with these systems? My only experience with methanol is I installed several systems on camaro zl1's and c7 corvette variants. The pumps had constant failures/leaks and it always had me worried if something were to go wrong how expensive the resulting repair could be. I am interested in putting one of these on my tts but my experience has me apprehensive.
"Hats off" to M Engineering team for all of their research and contributions to us TTS enthusiasts... THANK YOU guys. Good fun.
A few questions on meth (sorry I am a newb to meth) -- 1) what happens to a TTS setup for meth on M Engineering Tune when you run it without meth (e.g but change your M tune map back to say... 91 oct/no meth)? 2) what happens if I change the M eng tune map back to 91 octane and there's still a little meth in the system as the last meth eventually depletes/bleeds out... and eventually becomes 100% 91 octane?
I use my TTS as a daily driver (mostly 91 oct) and would only be able to add meth for sporting events, track days, etc. Would love to come off the track and change the M tune map and "drive home" on 91 octane.
That is some great information. Have you ever had a failure of one of these systems? (parts failure, not install error) Is there any recommended maintenance with these systems? My only experience with methanol is I installed several systems on camaro zl1's and c7 corvette variants. The pumps had constant failures/leaks and it always had me worried if something were to go wrong how expensive the resulting repair could be. I am interested in putting one of these on my tts but my experience has me apprehensive.
I have not seen a failure before on the pumps on the kits we sell (Flat6 and World Motorsport). In terms of maintenance, we do recommend cleaning out the mesh screens/filters on the nozzles every oil change or other oil change.
Originally Posted by L76
"Hats off" to M Engineering team for all of their research and contributions to us TTS enthusiasts... THANK YOU guys. Good fun.
A few questions on meth (sorry I am a newb to meth) -- 1) what happens to a TTS setup for meth on M Engineering Tune when you run it without meth (e.g but change your M tune map back to say... 91 oct/no meth)? 2) what happens if I change the M eng tune map back to 91 octane and there's still a little meth in the system as the last meth eventually depletes/bleeds out... and eventually becomes 100% 91 octane?
I use my TTS as a daily driver (mostly 91 oct) and would only be able to add meth for sporting events, track days, etc. Would love to come off the track and change the M tune map and "drive home" on 91 octane.
Cheers,
L76
Well with M-Tuner you can quickly change between your various maps. So if you plan on running the car without meth, run the "no meth" map. If you are running meth, you'll run the meth map. Map changes are done in about 60 seconds using M-Tuner on your laptop. No need to drive to a dealer or shop to switch them for you.
Methanol is done via an external tank you normally mount in the frunk, it's not "blended" in with your regular gas tank so you don't have to worry about that. Meth only sprays once you hit a certain boost level as the system is boost referenced.
That is some great information. Have you ever had a failure of one of these systems? (parts failure, not install error) Is there any recommended maintenance with these systems? My only experience with methanol is I installed several systems on camaro zl1's and c7 corvette variants. The pumps had constant failures/leaks and it always had me worried if something were to go wrong how expensive the resulting repair could be. I am interested in putting one of these on my tts but my experience has me apprehensive.
This was my experience with meth systems as well on my turbo Camaro, fittings were always leaking and I have 2 pumps fail within 6 months. Built motors were around $7000, having to replace a motor on a 911 Turbo is not something I want to have to price out.
This was my experience with meth systems as well on my turbo Camaro, fittings were always leaking and I have 2 pumps fail within 6 months. Built motors were around $7000, having to replace a motor on a 911 Turbo is not something I want to have to price out.
Don't scare me.
What system were you running? (Meth)
M Eng: Does your tune have ability to add fuel back into the mix if the meth system cuts out or what happens if this system dies during a full throttle/boost pull? (I know no one wants to talk to about the negatives, but with the price of these cars, its worth discussing)
M Eng: Does your tune have ability to add fuel back into the mix if the meth system cuts out or what happens if this system dies during a full throttle/boost pull? (I know no one wants to talk to about the negatives, but with the price of these cars, its worth discussing)
Alky control, maybe things are different now but 10 years ago it was iffy at best.
The 992 Turbo operates with closed loop fueling. STFT will add/remove fuel as needed in real time. So if meth were to cut out, fuel would be added. This would happen very fast (milliseconds).
The 992 Turbo operates with closed loop fueling. STFT will add/remove fuel as needed in real time. So if meth were to cut out, fuel would be added. This would happen very fast (milliseconds).
-Charles@M
So if a pump fails the vehicle will add enough fuel to save the engine?
The 992 Turbo operates with closed loop fueling. STFT will add/remove fuel as needed in real time. So if meth were to cut out, fuel would be added. This would happen very fast (milliseconds).
-Charles@M
Great video Charles.
I checked one the dyno what would happen to my 992 turbo if the meth stopped working in a run. The ECU was able to quickly react to the change and kept it safe. I wasn't worried about that situation after I saw that.
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So if a pump fails the vehicle will add enough fuel to save the engine?
The pump is not generally a failure point unless the electrical connection stops working. The only failure point has been in the controllers and MAP sensors over the years. At least when it's a controller issue, the unit is right in front of you when installed in place of the Chrono clock.
12-04-2023, 07:07 PM
M-Engineering: Addicted to Meth - 992 TTS gets meth injection
