3-Pedals

It's not really. I have contacted every for sale Turbo S and all but one is above $30k over msrp. You can see from the way dealers negotiate that they are very desperate.

3_PDLS

I was offered two different Turbo S cars that are en route; $20-$25k over I was told. One is PTS. Just as a data point.

3-Pedals

Maybe we should create a thread like in the 991 section and share the leads. It seems like allocations are not that hard to come by anymore and the cars that are on the lot are mostly “asking” for $25-35k over and selling for $7-10k below asking. Looking back the month of march/feb/jan, these are $20k lower prices and if the trend continues used cars will easily start hitting msrp levels. Private party figures are $10k lower than the retail (as usual).

The BAT and pcarmarket sales also correlate these numbers (except a few outlier auction due to unique specs) where 98% of the auctions were within 2% of the msrp plus or minus.

3-Pedals

3 more data points, 2 cabriolets and 1 coupe, all around $14-17k over. One of them came down to $5k over (including shipping). The prices seem to be coming down like a boat anchor.

I think part of the problem is dealers hold these cars with loans they hold. The higher the rates, the more expensive these cars are on their lot. Every day the car sits, they lose more and more money.

Tick tock tick tock tick tock. Karma is a bitch. They couldn't care less a year ago charging $100k ADM, I don't feel bad for them.

3-Pedals

chance6

I looked at a GT3 today- they are asking $65k over on a used car. The seats have a little wear. Also a small tiny tear in the leather right behind the seat belt. One door sill guard has a nick in the plastic. Sofas. That crap would bother me. Doesn't compute.

chance6

So they are still asking +$30k over MSRP? So how is that desperate? The story I got today from two dealers is: on GTS, no allocations, the line is 8 people deep. yadda yadda. "Demand is way over supply", etc. Same story.

Manifold

'Desperate' would mean significantly below MSRP for a new car. Doesn't seem that we're close to that.

fantom557

This is what I have found speaking to different dealers in the northeast. It didn’t matter if ordering for 2023 or 2024.
1st dealer wanted 50k to order a new car had a slot available. Had a few cabs in stock.
2nd dealer wanted 50k for new car but had to put on a list.
3rd dealer had a car inbound wanted 25k plus doing PPF and min 4 months financing with porsche. That car the specs not for me.
4th dealer wanted 50k for inbound car.

Used cars in the area are asking around 30K ADM.

I was wondering what others are hearing for new car ADM’s.

Sorry I may have not been clear on my first post.

3-Pedals

I’m sorry but you guys dont know what you are doing. I am not amazing at this or have some secret skills. I literally turned down 2 TTS allocations at msrp and accepted the 3rd one at MSRP. We put in the order in November, I picked up the car in February. I dont think this is luck as much as doing a bit of research. Now that I have the car, I would absolutely not pay a dime over MSRP and I totally can see why these used to sell at a huge discount before 2021. Its your time and your money. If you want to pay $30,000 of mark up by all means.

BAT usually is a good indicator of where the cars are selling at.

Another trick in the old bag of tricks is to appear like you already own the car (applies to any car) and try to get appraisals from a few sellers. Find out what the car you are willing to buy would be worth in today’s market. Its the same concept in finance called “mark to market”. You’ll be shocked that those hard to come by $50,000 over msrp Turbos actually are worth $20k below MSRP. Thats your biggest cue. Do you think the dealers make $70,000? No! Their ideal spread is usually 10-12%, greedy ones are 15-18%. So if a car is worth $20k under msrp in trade, how much you think dealer’s bottom line is? Its basic math. They are sitting on these cars trying to turn a massive profit. But the rates have gone through roof meaning their own financing is hurting them. I got some shocking news for you. Dealers dont sit on piles of cash guys. When they buy a car, they finance it through their credit line. They pay a spread for each month a car is on the “lot”. Every day that goes by, this eats away from their profit. In today’s rates, a $280,000 loan line at 8% is a lot of interest that they pay. Time is their biggest enemy and your biggest ally.

If you come across as a clueless person who has the money, you will of course be asked to pay $50,000 ADM.

Bigbwb

totally agree, your experience mirrors mine this past week. I have money down on 3 allocation spots all at msrp.

3-Pedals

Just for fun, I literally negotiated more than a handful TTS leads down to $10-12k over MSRP in less than 3 e-mails between yesterday and today. That means if I push and get serious about it, I can get them to $5-7k over. At least one of them is very desperate and needs to move the car. Porsche did no one any favors by pumping these cars at an increased rate between last summer and now. Dealers here have 4-5 of these cars show up literally every other week. The parking lots have several cars waiting for customers to pick up delivery. Those cars will show up in used car market soon when people get bored of them or they need funds for something else etc.

The used car market will go from "because of shortage of TTS parts, if you want a car now, you can pay premium and get one" to "there are too many TTS in circulation and allocations are more widely available, so you can get a used car at a DISCOUNT below MSRP or pay a PREMIUM by paying MSRP On a new car but wait more" in a matter of a few weeks to months. I know dealers who were given over a dozen TTS allocations to only 7 other 911 allocations in ALL TRIMS combined. Porsche seems to have gotten greedy and they want to maximize their profit by increasing TTS allocations.

Take a look at BAT for some of the other benchmark cars. 765LT is a car you'd agree is desirable no? Well all but one sold in the last 6 months. Large majority of auctions ended with RNM well under MSRP. 720S is a car that we all know doesnt hold its value well but they were going for MSRP in the used car market recently. BAT shows us sales that are $120,000-$140,000 below MSRP on 1 to 2 year old cars with very low miles. These are massive spreads and big price changes.

Part of the problem with people coming here and saying ADM this and that is they don't follow the market and don't know what's going on. They don't have experience in researching. The number one thing you need to learn how to do is to get in the mindset of trying to figure out what your opponent (sellers in this case) is thinking. You have to get an understanding of his hand. What are they paying for these cars themselves? What are their usual profit margins? What are the factors that impact their profits generally? How are other brands (Ferrari, Mclaren, Lambo) in similar price ranges are doing? It doesn't hurt to e-mail and appear interested in a 488 or a 720S to see how desperate those dealers are. The market is absolutely connected.

I wrote this before but let me summarize here.

2 Years ago if you wanted to buy a $250,000 car. You could get a loan at 2% for 5 years, keep your $250,000 in your brokerage account on funds or stocks that were going up all the time, buy an asset that appreciated in value. This was the case for most people. Stocks kept going up, car prices kept going up, rates were low. So you had very little downside. Now the rates are high so the cost of the loan for $250,000 is an enormous $60,000 almost over the course of the loan. The car prices are going down so with all that money you are borrowing and interest you are paying, the property you are buying will be worth far less, and to top it off stocks are declining or not doing much positively. So we have gone from 3 good positive indicators (low rates, appreciating car values, good performing stock market) to 3 negative indicators (high rates, declining car values, not so well performing stocks). You see where this is going? No where good for the dealers.

Turbo Racer

@3-Pedals nice synthesis of the market. I bought my tts used a few months ago. Dealer told me they were going to lose $20k on my offer. They did accept it and there was no hard bargaining or hand wringing on my part. Or theirs to be fair. I think that despite what things may outwardly appear to be with respect to prices, I think if you know what you want and what you think is fair to spend, deals are out there. Still a lousy time to buy a car though.

3-Pedals

Nice one. I'm guessing even with them losing $20k, you still paid over MSRP or was it at MSRP?

shrimp money

Dealers have been saying they’re losing money on a deal since the beginning of time.