Notices
992 Turbo and Turbo S 2019-Current
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Porsche San Francisco

992 Turbo S high flow integrated turbo kit development

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-03-2021, 03:01 AM
  #16  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default Fall '21 updates

Performed first road test of the Stage3 setup.

TTE turbos, NO meth, IC+ex manifolds+BMC air filters.




Some lower power setup tests a bit earlier to check the car overall, performed pretty similar runs.
6 runs in a row, 9.536 - 9.590






Last edited by LEVELperformance; 09-03-2021 at 07:51 AM.
Old 09-03-2021, 07:34 AM
  #17  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Got some updates with our setup.

We have carefully worked out the urban, daily configuration.
TTE turbos, our design intercooler + exhaust manifolds + BMC air filters.
Pump gas, no meth, absolutely solid with consecutive accelerations up to 320 km/h.

100-200 within 4.23-4.28 sec
200-250 3.68 sec
60 ft' as low as 1.385 sec





Street pulls below - really suffer because of wheelspin, OEM Goodyears cant hold the torque. all the wheels are spinning up to 130-135 khm (shift to 3rd gear)
Going to track this setup shortly if the weather will be dry enough.



You've probably noticed the intercooler design above and here is the exhaust manifold we are using.

All the hardware is CFD optimized with the market's best software and the university mainframe to ensure perfect and equal flow.

Today's setup is non-serviceable (no meth) and intended for daily use.

We spent countless hours on dyno testing the SLM-printed|welded manifold for reliability.

We will continue the calibration job now and do some more changes:

- MS109 fuel
- WMI injection (as we have reached the fuel stability for the local pump gas, ignition is retarded after 280 km/h even with low IAT's)
- inlets
- intake manifold change
- TCU tune

This car is going to be EXTRA fast.

Open for your questions and ideas!! lets talk on details if you are interested in this





Last edited by LEVELperformance; 09-03-2021 at 01:42 PM. Reason: added more photos
The following 4 users liked this post by LEVELperformance:
boosted305 (01-06-2022), NigelPlays (09-08-2021), Tay101 (09-04-2021), TNturboS (09-04-2021)
Old 09-06-2021, 04:21 AM
  #18  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Entered the track day on Friday to check actual ET time, not as good as we

had really poor traction because of weather, the day was cloudy and cold.
Did one 9.417@235 run and few runs slower, the weekend was rainy so no testing was performed on Saturday and Sunday.

https://dragdb.ru/public/612/pilot/503

Old 09-08-2021, 01:53 AM
  #19  
anes911
Advanced
 
anes911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Received 34 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Anything on trans tune update? I assume that’s the restriction at the moment preventing more power.

also, what power level are you at now ? What do you anticipate being the safe zone?

the 991s are doing 850-900whp on ES kits on stock motor little too no issues. I assume this will be comparable?
Old 09-08-2021, 03:04 AM
  #20  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by anes911
Anything on trans tune update? I assume that’s the restriction at the moment preventing more power.

also, what power level are you at now ? What do you anticipate being the safe zone?

the 991s are doing 850-900whp on ES kits on stock motor little too no issues. I assume this will be comparable?
No trans upgades yet, just started working on the TCU tune as the PDK2 flashing is now available for public.
This car is really SMART and its ignition retard strategies are multiple. Clutch capacity and limiters bounds us in the middle revs zone, and we have not reached the safe limit on high revs yet.

We are doing this with 830 whp and 950 N*m. Finally maxed out the fuel on this setup. What we do for safety is absolutely simple and the same for all the cars we are working with - no torque rush and no rude changes along with proprietary high speed logging.

Comparing to 991 we assume it will hold even more power. Engine is far more efficient, it's fuel injection system is far improved and the sophisticated boost control provides us lots of opportunities to keep it safe. As well as CR - it's lower here. So this engine will accept more boost safely.

The numbers we got above are still for no meth setup and I can't wait for the moment we will continue tuning with the injection.
Old 09-08-2021, 10:10 AM
  #21  
anes911
Advanced
 
anes911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Received 34 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Amazing!!!!
I assume you guys are working with the Gentleman at M-engineering ?

they did my 720s and I hold a few records thanks to there mad scientist work!
Old 09-08-2021, 10:46 AM
  #22  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

We are on short hand with Mitch and he gave us a lot of support in some projects.
I am also inspired to work with him and I will be glad if we ever become partner of M-engineering.
The following users liked this post:
anes911 (09-08-2021)
Old 09-08-2021, 10:56 AM
  #23  
anes911
Advanced
 
anes911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Received 34 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LEVELperformance
We are on short hand with Mitch and he gave us a lot of support in some projects.
I am also inspired to work with him and I will be glad if we ever become partner of M-engineering.

fantastic!! Those guys are mad scientists!
im sure you guys will figure it out together!
team work makes the dream work!
Old 01-06-2022, 02:10 AM
  #24  
boosted305
Instructor
 
boosted305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 98
Received 20 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LEVELperformance



992 turbo s intercooler kit ready for assembly and welding

992 intercooler welded

detailed look at the 992 turbo s intercooler

992 turbo s intercooler - LEVEL high flow one vs OEM

992 turbo s intercooler - LEVEL high flow with air ducts installed

detailed look at the 992 turbo s intercooler


Level Performance
That is a GOOD looking intercooler...LOVE the round outlet end tank design...I can't quantitatively say whether the flow is better or worse, but based solely on visual/aesthetic reasons I prefer this rounded design to the square design of the CSF. Also love that it is pre-threaded for meth, that is forward thinking.
Old 01-07-2022, 05:16 AM
  #25  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by boosted305
That is a GOOD looking intercooler...LOVE the round outlet end tank design...I can't quantitatively say whether the flow is better or worse, but based solely on visual/aesthetic reasons I prefer this rounded design to the square design of the CSF. Also love that it is pre-threaded for meth, that is forward thinking.
thank you for rating.

the shape/form is built on an optimized model.
we did our best to reduce pressure drop while maximizing heat transfer
that's why the core is much thicker and air ducts are reworked in full too.

we did this to make 1000hp builds possible without meth injection
most of our customers prefer configurations in which it is not necessary to top up excess fluid
Old 01-07-2022, 05:56 AM
  #26  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

it's time to share the final results of work on the 992 Turbo performance package in 2021

We have performed many runs on the dyno and track to to determine the correct ECU tuning strategy to build really SOLID package.
All the hardware works well without any mechanical issues or changes.
The mule now has mileage of 9700 km on dyno or racetrack only, no street driving - and i have to say we have never seen such a capable car

We deliberately limited ourselves to a torque of 970 Nm to to provide a guarantee of reliability and durability.
i am sure all the pros will appreciate the midrange torque characteristics.

And i believe the numbers speak for themselves.
All the data below is given for NO methanol, AKI 93 pump gas (regular RON100 universally available in Russia).
Absolutely repeatable, i bet 11 runs in 13 minutes actually means non-stop (go smoke from brake pads and rotors brightly glowing because the airstrip i use for testing is 1300m long only)

Spec:
- TTE modified turbos (the very early design, probably we were among the first customers)
- Intercooler of our own production with proprietary air ducts
- SLM lightweight exhaust manufolds
- BMC air filters
- lightweight custom exhaust

Everything except is bone stock.


992 Turbo S bone stock vs non-meth stage3



200-250 kmh acceleration

100-200 kmh solid

really solid

~290+ kmh trap on 1/2 and ~243+ kmh trap for 1/4.
100-200 kmh is 3.9-4.0 solid 11 times in a row on the wet road.
no 1/4 times below 9.3 as we have winter now.

We have winter now in Moscow and the testing was performed on the small airfield a bit to the south.
all the runs performed on wet road with factory tires.

Mods to come shortly:
- more ECU tune to raise boost pressure (still have some room for safe advance)
- inlet pipes (already done, waiting for testing)
- intake manifold (already done, waiting for testing)
- post IC WMI
- port WMI
- TCU tune (only few mods nos)

Mods to come later:
- rods to raise torque to 1100 Nm safe (design in process)
- clutch upgrade (not sure if anyone has product already coming)

I want to inform you that we primarily focus on hardware production and want to offer the market the highest quality product.
Our shop car is now tuned in-house by employee and we are open for cooperation with other tuners, software is not an obligatory part.

filmed few runs on dragy


Last edited by LEVELperformance; 01-07-2022 at 06:03 AM. Reason: added more photos
Old 01-07-2022, 11:39 AM
  #27  
onfireTTS
Rennlist Member
 
onfireTTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,301
Received 1,108 Likes on 856 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LEVELperformance
it's time to share the final results of work on the 992 Turbo performance package in 2021

We have performed many runs on the dyno and track to to determine the correct ECU tuning strategy to build really SOLID package.
All the hardware works well without any mechanical issues or changes.
The mule now has mileage of 9700 km on dyno or racetrack only, no street driving - and i have to say we have never seen such a capable car

We deliberately limited ourselves to a torque of 970 Nm to to provide a guarantee of reliability and durability.
i am sure all the pros will appreciate the midrange torque characteristics.

And i believe the numbers speak for themselves.
All the data below is given for NO methanol, AKI 93 pump gas (regular RON100 universally available in Russia).
Absolutely repeatable, i bet 11 runs in 13 minutes actually means non-stop (go smoke from brake pads and rotors brightly glowing because the airstrip i use for testing is 1300m long only)

Spec:
- TTE modified turbos (the very early design, probably we were among the first customers)
- Intercooler of our own production with proprietary air ducts
- SLM lightweight exhaust manufolds
- BMC air filters
- lightweight custom exhaust

Everything except is bone stock.


992 Turbo S bone stock vs non-meth stage3



200-250 kmh acceleration

100-200 kmh solid

really solid

~290+ kmh trap on 1/2 and ~243+ kmh trap for 1/4.
100-200 kmh is 3.9-4.0 solid 11 times in a row on the wet road.
no 1/4 times below 9.3 as we have winter now.

We have winter now in Moscow and the testing was performed on the small airfield a bit to the south.
all the runs performed on wet road with factory tires.

Mods to come shortly:
- more ECU tune to raise boost pressure (still have some room for safe advance)
- inlet pipes (already done, waiting for testing)
- intake manifold (already done, waiting for testing)
- post IC WMI
- port WMI
- TCU tune (only few mods nos)

Mods to come later:
- rods to raise torque to 1100 Nm safe (design in process)
- clutch upgrade (not sure if anyone has product already coming)

I want to inform you that we primarily focus on hardware production and want to offer the market the highest quality product.
Our shop car is now tuned in-house by employee and we are open for cooperation with other tuners, software is not an obligatory part.

filmed few runs on dragy

Is the pressure drop through your new IC cores higher or lower than OEM ? Interesting that the CSF new 992 cores are more restricted with a 1.25psi more drop than OEM. Obviously cools better, but that’s a surprise restriction.
Old 01-08-2022, 02:19 AM
  #28  
boosted305
Instructor
 
boosted305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 98
Received 20 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LEVELperformance

~243+ kmh trap for 1/4.
Very nice!

Originally Posted by LEVELperformance

Mods to come shortly:
- more ECU tune to raise boost pressure (still have some room for safe advance)
How many bar are you currently running? And how much more are you planning to run? The 992 TTS from factory runs 1.5 bar which comparatively speaking is not a small amount...how much more can the 992 TTS handle?




Old 01-16-2022, 04:51 PM
  #29  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by onfireTTS
Is the pressure drop through your new IC cores higher or lower than OEM ? Interesting that the CSF new 992 cores are more restricted with a 1.25psi more drop than OEM. Obviously cools better, but that’s a surprise restriction.
First, let me share the position/approach we have on this issue.

Providing reliable pressure drop information with exact numbers without detailed laboratory testing we consider unprofessional approach, it is scientifically unreliable.
Because the pressure drop is directly related to the air flow.
And we can not measure this airflow exactly on the car to say our numbers are our figures are accurate and reliable.

At the same time, the problem is absolutely obvious - the design of regular cast tanks, core thickness of OEM cores immediately caught our attention.
When creating our product, we initially chose the approach of maximizing pressure loss because we did not intend to make the product cheap/affordable, but focused on high-performance configurations.
We don't have our own core manufacturing or end tank casting.
the ability to develop complex products is our only advantage, and we decided to implement it.


Our cores are significantly thicker than stock or any competitive.
Core has effective thickness of 110mm and produced according to the most efficient technology of the PWR North America/ С&R.

Values we got with manufacturer, they are the basis for calculating the efficiency of the intercooler and they are confirmed by a reputable manufacturer, as well as validated during testing

Pressure Drop (PD) of CR|LEVEL cores - 1,37786 [psi] @ mass flow of 0.4 [kg/s]
Charge Air inlet Pressure 4.02 [bar] absolute
Charge Air Inlet Temp 180 [C]
Charge Air Outlet Temp 58.9 [C]
Av. Normalised Heat Dissipation 14.249 [kW/m2/°C ETD]

Then we have theoretical, calculated values for our end tanks:
Pressure drop for both small And large tanks (inner+outer ones) (SUM) is 212 [Pa] ()@ mass flow of 0.4 kg/s which in terms of is 0,030748 psi.

so theoretically we have pressure drop of 1,408608 psi @ 0.4 kg/s for the whole unit.
I would be happy to reliably measure this value with a standard intercooler, but we are not able to do this.

sorry for the possibly boring answer, even my team calls me a bore but it is this approach that allows us to fulfill our obligations to customers.

if you are interested, I showed the intercooler before welding in details in this video:
pay attention to the flow separator in the inlet tanks, according to calculations, its influence on the uniformity of filling the tubes is very large and without it the overall efficiency of the core would be 20% lower


the BELL core shown on that video was our was the first of six types we tested.
it has the lowest pressure drop, lowest cost but is not suitable for the Turbo S power plant configuration at all.
it is good for huge airflow, high boost applications and needs to be way bigger because its density (core density) is several times lower then C&R has (and the car needs)
we assumed it, but we had to make sure because without data validation, you cannot rely on your mathematical model

Last edited by LEVELperformance; 01-16-2022 at 04:58 PM. Reason: added few lines describing the video
Old 01-16-2022, 05:08 PM
  #30  
LEVELperformance
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
LEVELperformance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 106
Received 42 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by boosted305
Very nice!
How many bar are you currently running? And how much more are you planning to run? The 992 TTS from factory runs 1.5 bar which comparatively speaking is not a small amount...how much more can the 992 TTS handle?
we're doing this numbers at 3150 millibar absolute (so 2.15 bar of boost) and this is a value we limit ourselves to this value because we don't want to put too much stress on the rods.

we are doing all this research on the only one, shop car - due to hardware tests, it passed a monstrous number of dyno pulls and we try to keep it safe.
I think our torque curve is giving us away.

I think OEM engine will stay good up to 2.3-2.4 bar with the proper calibration approach. or even higher

this car is a TVG/DI one so it is designed to be very efficient in all senses.
the way it reduces the backpressure with OEM ECU strategies is absolutely brilliant.


Quick Reply: 992 Turbo S high flow integrated turbo kit development



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 12:52 PM.