meangt3rs

I currently run with ESC off and TC on. I mainly turned ESC off because I know people who have worn out their rear brakes because of it being on. I don’t notice any difference in having it on or off so maybe I am just driving within the limits of the system. I am an advanced driver with some pro racing under my belt.

redpriest

I'm going to necro this thread because the 992 GT3RS has a really nice "progressive" traction control system. The one thing I really hated from the standard settings of traction control on the 991.2 era was that you could not power slide out of a corner and sometimes it felt like the interventions could actually get you into trouble (not being able to use the throttle to slide your way out of a snap). It's also really harsh, as in, if you cause an intervention to happen the power gets cut for a couple seconds.

On the 992 RS you can dial this down so that it's not nearly as unforgiving when you get into one of these situations. The biggest one I can think of, is a hair pin turn where it's very easy to apply too much throttle and it just kills the lap time. For me I've settled on "2 DYN", so dynamic traction control setting 2. Keep in mind though, I have tons of experience driving with traction control off on vastly less expensive cars, so this setting works for me in my comfort zone for risk + reward.

TRAKCAR

I haven't even dialed back SC and with a littlemore diff under braking I got lots of rotation, easier and more then 991.2RS.
By the time SC intervenes you focked up pretty much, and my lap time wasn't bad for the first weekend, but it will go faster, I think, if I go softer and let it rotate less in all but the slowest corners.

997RS was slower, because it cut power, so back then SC and TC off.
Ever since the 991.1RS I found it to be no faster without SC.
It's tough to watch people write off their car for no good reason...

Nur93

Actually, this discussion is pretty straightforward. How many of you here have tried driving with and without ESC and looked at the data? All the data is logged in the track app, and if you drive with ESC on, it shows exactly where on the track you're triggering ESC, over how many meters, and how much time you're losing compared to an overlay on the next lap when you drive without it. I do this often, and unlike many others who don't, I know how much ESC holds back a skilled driver in a 992 GT3. You can't rotate the car and balance it properly with full throttle if you have the system on. I'm going against the grain here and saying the opposite of what most people are saying in the thread: if you're not even triggering ESC, you're nowhere near the limit. Plus, the car becomes way more fun to drive without ESC." In regards of 992 GT3 RS I have not yet tested esc on vs off and checked my data on it, as I don't own that car yet, so can't tel. But I know fore sure when I sat passenger with Jörg Bergmester he is always ALL off:-) In my view, if you can't push the car to its grip limits and feel completely confident while doing so when ESC off, you're simply not as good a driver as someone who can. That skilled driver feels confident full on ESC off, normally that would say hes is a faster better driver vs the one who don't feel confident full on ESC off.

"Of course, there are risks with ESC off, and naturally, the time difference between ESC on and off isn't significant. However, it's clear that a 992 GT3 becomes more drivable and truly shines without ESC." And let's not forget, the majority of those who crash their cars on the track are driving with ESC on / enabled. The risk of crashing exists regardless. Nobody can defy physics :-) Not even with ESC enabled."

Nur93

Jörg Bergmester and Lars Kern an many other skilled drivers is all ESC off. There is a reson, its not only slightly faster but car is way more driveble and adjustable on the limit.

Manifold

I drove with ESC off in the Cayman R and 997 C2S. I didn't spin and I was plenty fast. Honestly, I don't know if ESC was intervening when I had it on in those cars, because the cars felt the same with ESC on or off, but I wanted to be sure that it was me driving the car without help from ESC, so I left it off. Plus, by leaving it off, I could tell myself I was a manly man.

When I moved to the 991.1 GT3 - a much more expensive and fast car - I tried ESC on and off on the skidpad. I found that ESC didn't intervene on the skidpad until the car was so far out of shape that there's no way I could prevent a spin. In other words, the ESC gave a long leash and was acting only as a safety net to save the car when it was beyond the driver's point of no return. So I left the ESC on while on track, and have done the same with all Porsche GT cars since then. For a driver who's smooth and fast, I think the ESC has little or no intervention, and therefore doesn't slow the car down nor impede development of driver skill.

In some non-Porsches, like older BMWs, you may find that ESC intervenes a lot on the track, to the point where the car is unpleasant and counterintuitive to drive, so the ESC needs to be turned off.

2020

Suggestion for everyone is to book a track session at the Porsche Experience Center. The kickplate, wet circle, and low friction circuit will really give you an idea of how much these systems affect these cars. Will all the safety mechanisms off, it really humbles you as a driver and shows how much the car (technology) is keeping you on the asphalt. However I do like to do the above circuits with all traction control settings off just to build my driving skills. On track and definitely on the road all systems are full on.

Manifold

That was not my experience. There was zero intervention from ESC until the car was at a very wide yaw angle, and then the intervention was very aggressive.

Nur93

On this lap without ESC, I'm slightly faster than when driving the same lap with ESC activated.


There's no need to speculate on whether ESC slows you down on track or not. Simply test it yourself; if you're slower with ESC turned off, you're likely not pushing the car's performance to its limits.By testing, you'll have logged data that clearly shows how often you're triggering the system and the impact on your time. You can see in detail where on the track ESC is activated and by how many meters. With a delta overlay comparing your next lap without ESC, you'll see the time lost.

Moreover, in modern Porsches, ESC is triggered far more often than you might expect when it's turned on. (this you Will see in the data)

You can precisely see where on the track you trigger ESC and compare it to laps with ESC turned off. Before conducting a detailed test, one cannot simply make assumptions. The data is clear and doesn't lie.

It's important to note that I'm driving with ESC turned off but TC (Traction Control) on, so the only indicator flashing on the dashboard is for TC, which is activated to save some tire wear. This distinction is clearly separated in the data log, showing that TC does not hinder progress on the track (unlike ESC, which does slow down adequate drivers).

npalacio

I have raced cars for years and ran my 991 GT3 and current 992 GT3 with it on. I feel it only is an issue if you find yourself quite a bit out of whack and suspect I would be slightly faster with it off. But for a track day, who cares? You want to risk binning a 200-300K car to go .2 or even .5 faster? No thanks. Keep it on would be my recommendation, its just a track day and you aren't winning anything.

Manifold

My takeaway is that YOU are faster with ESC off because your driving style requires that you make too many big corrections. I've watched pros drive my cars, and they're smoother than you, they don't need to make big corrections because they're ahead of the car and making smaller corrections. You may be faster if you smooth things out, and then you may find that you're no slower with ESC on.

ipse dixit

I am not skilled enough nor rich enough to drive with ESC off.

Nur93

Regarding my lap, this is the fastest lap anyone has driven a 992 GT3 in my country on this track.(also my 3.04.9min) All fast laps is with some mistakes.

I didn't get under 3:06 minutes until I disconnected the ESC. The layout of this track is 7.3km long with a significant elevation change and it's almost constantly turning. I would venture to say that you need to disconnect the ESC on a 100% stock 992 GT3 to even be able to get under 3:06 minutes on this track. As not only driverstyle trigger ESC, also track-layout.

Your point is that if ESC actually contributed to faster lap times, then record laps on various tracks would be achieved with ESC turned on?

However, in reality, they're run with ESC turned off because the system's primary purpose is to prevent accidents, not to improve lap times. ESC is designed for safety and stability, not to maximize performance on the racetrack for your streetcar.

Manifold

Top tier pro drivers can turn it off and they may be a little faster with it off. No one posting in this thread is a top tier pro driver.

Nur93

Of course, it's true that different drivers trigger the ESC differently. (Also different tracks trigger ESC different)

But the fact remains, no other 992 GT3 or 992 GT3 RS has gone faster here in my country on this track. No one else from Europe either, despite many attempts. Most drive around here is in 3:08 to 3:25 minutes with the ESC turned on.

It's me in my 100% stock 992 GT3 and a fully Manthey-kitted 991.2 GT3 RS who are in Porsche terms below 3:05 minutes. (There's a tenth of a second difference between our laps &#128578

I'm no professional, but at least I'm not groping in the dark. The difference between you and me is that I'm not guessing how many trees there are in the forest. 🙂

I know because I have the data from when I run laps of 3:06+ here with ESC ON - so I see in detail exactly where on the meter I trigger ESC, also see over how many meters the system is triggered and how the car slows down.

Then I disconnect the ESC and run directly under 3:06 minutes; this is my home track, and the track is like a little Nürburgring, it jumps and throws a lot. The fact is that the ESC system is quite poor on 992 GT3 in terms of track driving & that's precisely why the RS got adjustable ESC.

I'm 100% sure you haven't done what I have; you probably don't know that you can see in detail how ESC affects your driving. And do an overlay against laps without ESC to see the delta.

QUOTE=Manifold;19365750]Top tier pro drivers can turn it off and they may be a little faster with it off. No one posting in this thread is a top tier pro driver.[/QUOTE]