Thanks for the info! If Range 1 is still at 9k, makes sense that Subshooter’s over-revs could be simple Rev limiter bumps in gear (and not a mechanical over-rev).

 

To me it would’ve been better if they made range one start at 9100 give you a little breathing room or make the redline 8900?
I can’t remember another car that I’ve had were the rev limiter in the redline are exactly the same?
I thought the GT four had a redline of 7800 and the rev limiter was eight grand?

 

Just been in at my local dealer to sign for a few things.
I enquired about the 6 month old manual 992 touring that they had for sale SOR last time I was in and the sale had just been agreed.
Apparently upon check, the engine has been over revved a few times; in one day alone over 1000 times and Porsche have indicated the warranty shall not cover any engine issues.
The mind boggles.
It has less than 2k miles.
If your buying one prvately, get an OPC to check it out regardless of how new or how low miles or it could be a very costly mistake.

 

It hasn't been over-revved over 1,000 times. It has over 1,000 spark plug ignitions while spinning at over 9k rpm (3 per revolution), so a bit more than 2 seconds beyond redline. Since it was in one day, almost certainly a missed shift. Would be interesting to know the max rpm (apparently this isn't reported the way it was with 991.2 but would be interesting to see number of ignitions in each Range 1, 2 and 3). After a certain number of hours, the car can become eligible for certified warranty (including engine). Maybe this was too recent.

 

1,000 ignitions? That's a lot even if it was Range 1.

 

2 seconds over redline is a lot. That means driver missed shift and did absolutely nothing to mitigate it lol. Most people immediately put the clutch in and catch a shift. That's what happened to me. My over-rev lasted one-hundredth of a second, if that. But to sit there while car is over redline for 2 seconds straight... driver had to have been an idiot.

 

The 2 second calculation was based on 9k rpm. If he spun it to 12k rpm, he could accumulate that many ignitions more quickly. Definitely not well driven... Almost certainly beyond Range 1, based on the data (and the fact that Porsche pulled the engine warranty). Probably deep Range 3 (the highest range).

 

I don't know which scnario would be worse...

 

12k is definitely worse.

It has to be spun well over 9k to stay in the red for 2 seconds in one event. There is plenty of engine braking up there, so for it to take 2 seconds to get below redline, it probably started WAY above redline and guy didn't press the clutch upon hearing the engine scream. First day trying a Manual, perhaps?

 

It was put to me the engine had been over revved multiple times, and on one day alone over 1000.
I was told the current situation that they shall not sell the car unless the engine is replaced.
It has obviously been logged now so selling privately without full disclosure won't end well.
If it indeed requires a new engine, I would take a pass and find another.
not a great situation for the owner.

 

Again as said above, the over-rev electronics count the number of spark ignitions not the number of events. Even if done intentionally, it would be next to impossible to cause 1,000 over-rev events in one day. But 2 seconds of being beyond the rev limit is relatively easily done (but wholly incompetent) which is what 1,000 ignitions implies. If the car is running correctly for the moment (without check engine light), there is a chance it will never need a new engine.

If they are saying it needs a new engine, it probably is showing a code that can't be cleared.

 

All of the rear panels have been removed from the touring to expose the engine.
If they have done that and the guy I deal with says Porsche shall now not warrant the engine, I would deduce it has been over revved for more than a few seconds.

 

If DME shows Range XYZ: 1,000 ignitions, that means it had 333 revs of the engine in that range = 333/RPM x 60 = time. So let's say max range was Range 1 = 2.17 seconds or so. But without knowing the max engine speed reached, it's silly to speculate. If max engine speed was 10,000 RPM = 2 seconds. If max engine speed was 9,100 RPM = 2.19 seconds. If max engine speed = 12,000 RPM = 1.667 seconds.

Could have been multiple instances of Range 1, 2, 3, etc. that all total 1,000 ignitions or whatever it actually is. Might not have been one incident. DME isn't specific.

Range 1 over-revs, in 991 cars at least, aren't a big deal.

 

It takes less than a 100th of a second to kill an engine. You have no reason to deduce the duration of the over-rev that would contradict the data (unless you have additional data you have not disclosed).

 

They SHALL not sell!!! Lol, so
much wrong information here. We have no proof of anything. It could bounce off the fuel
ignition cut off at redline all day and it will report 1000 R1, what does that mean? Absolutely nothing.

The whole reason for now just R1-3 is just that. Porsche doesn’t care anymore about anything over 9500 and that’s just 500 RPM above redline on a car that we have seen can handle 10k and not have any issues.

What are the concerns here? It’s either toast or not toast. Pistons hit or they didn’t, chain snapped or it didn’t. There is no in between really? Either you scored the cylinder or you didn’t. This is not Schrodingers cat, it’s not both so ****ed and so good.

Also, due to warranty laws, Porsche also can’t just unilaterally void an engine warranty for R3. First thing is engine needs to actually have an issue, second the burden is on Porsche to prove that whatever the issue is was caused specifically by the R3 and nothing else.

These posts are what causes unnecessary confusion and drama.