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Old 10-15-2021 | 07:10 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Mech33
Has anybody used both the DS3.12 and RE10s on track and can compare?
I did (on 991.2 though). Ferodo lasted longer and was better on rotors. RE10 had better feel on the road (better initial bite when cold and no slippery feeling for the first few applications after the car is parked for several weeks), but on track both were equally good. If I were choosing, I'd go with Ferodos but would be ok with RE10 too.

Last edited by MaxLTV; 10-15-2021 at 07:36 PM.
Old 10-15-2021 | 07:33 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Il CP
Not sure I would consider Motul 600 an upgrade. At least do 660 or 700..

But why not just go with Castrol React SRF Racing? Much better than any of the Motuls and last for 18 months. I've tested it on the Pista to disc temps of over 760 c using Pagid RSL1 pads with Surface Transfkrms discs. I had ZERO change in pedal feel.

I've tried many fluids, and nothing works as well or lasts as long as SRF.
The only benefit of SRF is higher wet boiling point. Its dry boiling point is not that high. Wet boiling point is measured at such a high water content level that it would take well over a year or two to get there in a new modern car. So if you are changing brake fluid say once a year, SRF is unlikely to have any meaninful benefit. Also, SRF is rather compressible, which may impact pedal feel, but I'm not sure if it's noticeable in practice.

A separate point on boiling fluid. The way braking system is designed in recent GT cars, it's very hard to boil fluid when using the car correctly. I melted every pad I used (Pagid, Ferodo, Endless, Brembo etc) as in pad disintegrating rapidly from exceeding operating temp, before the fluid boiled. The only times fluid boiled was when I could not do a cool-down lap and parked the car with hot brakes. These rotors are massive and take a while to cool, and they run at hundreds of degrees above fluid boiling temp. It's not a problem when the car is moving at track speeds, but once it's parked, calipers heatsoak from rotors and create air bubbles in the fluid. When you go out next session these bubbles are cold and small, so it may not be noticeable but once they heat up, the pedal goes really soft. So it may seem like the fluid boiled during the session, but it's more likely it happened when the car was parked after the previous session. After investigating this, I made a point of driving for at least 3-4 minutes at without using brakes before parking (many here saw me doing circles in the paddock whenever I got a late checkered flag).

To the OP - if the OEM fluid is less than one year old, it is fine. But never forget a good cooldown lap or even two laps on small tracks.
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Old 10-15-2021 | 08:59 PM
  #18  
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Is it necessary to bleed the OEM fluid after a track day? If not, what intervals are people doing? In my race car I used SRF and would bleed the brakes every 10 hours of track use. Not a full flush but at least change the fluid in the caliper.
Old 10-16-2021 | 12:26 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by MaxLTV
I did (on 991.2 though). Ferodo lasted longer and was better on rotors. RE10 had better feel on the road (better initial bite when cold and no slippery feeling for the first few applications after the car is parked for several weeks), but on track both were equally good. If I were choosing, I'd go with Ferodos but would be ok with RE10 too.
Great, thanks for chiming in. That’s good because I have a pile of 3.12 left over from my 991.1.
Old 10-16-2021 | 07:30 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by MaxLTV
I did (on 991.2 though). Ferodo lasted longer and was better on rotors. RE10 had better feel on the road (better initial bite when cold and no slippery feeling for the first few applications after the car is parked for several weeks), but on track both were equally good. If I were choosing, I'd go with Ferodos but would be ok with RE10 too.
exact opposite for me. 3.12 had great feel and bite, but didn’t last long running them on my RS. Also had one completely disintegrate and fall off the backing plate. RE10s only now for me as I feel they provided better wear and were more consistent
Old 10-16-2021 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by disden
exact opposite for me. 3.12 had great feel and bite, but didn’t last long running them on my RS. Also had one completely disintegrate and fall off the backing plate. RE10s only now for me as I feel they provided better wear and were more consistent
3.12 is a sprint pad with maximum friction. It's not going to last very long in extreme anger. 1.11 is the enduro pad, less friction, but flatter curve and easier on rotors.

I had lots of trouble with PFC, to the point that their pad material was consistently separating from the backing plate. Never going to touch PFC rotors, calipers or pads again - it's junk. One time it was good, but not any more.
Old 10-16-2021 | 01:18 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MaxLTV
The only benefit of SRF is higher wet boiling point. Its dry boiling point is not that high. Wet boiling point is measured at such a high water content level that it would take well over a year or two to get there in a new modern car. So if you are changing brake fluid say once a year, SRF is unlikely to have any meaninful benefit. Also, SRF is rather compressible, which may impact pedal feel, but I'm not sure if it's noticeable in practice.

A separate point on boiling fluid. The way braking system is designed in recent GT cars, it's very hard to boil fluid when using the car correctly. I melted every pad I used (Pagid, Ferodo, Endless, Brembo etc) as in pad disintegrating rapidly from exceeding operating temp, before the fluid boiled. The only times fluid boiled was when I could not do a cool-down lap and parked the car with hot brakes. These rotors are massive and take a while to cool, and they run at hundreds of degrees above fluid boiling temp. It's not a problem when the car is moving at track speeds, but once it's parked, calipers heatsoak from rotors and create air bubbles in the fluid. When you go out next session these bubbles are cold and small, so it may not be noticeable but once they heat up, the pedal goes really soft. So it may seem like the fluid boiled during the session, but it's more likely it happened when the car was parked after the previous session. After investigating this, I made a point of driving for at least 3-4 minutes at without using brakes before parking (many here saw me doing circles in the paddock whenever I got a late checkered flag).

To the OP - if the OEM fluid is less than one year old, it is fine. But never forget a good cooldown lap or even two laps on small tracks.
I have found that SRF will be much more stable through sessions. Also, I have found SRF to be much more stable between sessions, i.e boiling while parked. I have also tested RBF for water, and after 2 months, it was "wet". SRF may be a bit more expensive, but I use,a lot less of it. So I see no point in settling for less.
Old 10-16-2021 | 03:21 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
3.12 is a sprint pad with maximum friction. It's not going to last very long in extreme anger. 1.11 is the enduro pad, less friction, but flatter curve and easier on rotors.

I had lots of trouble with PFC, to the point that their pad material was consistently separating from the backing plate. Never going to touch PFC rotors, calipers or pads again - it's junk. One time it was good, but not any more.
Interesting. I just double-checked and my first 3-4 sets were 1.11 and the last 2 were 3.12. Regarding falling off the backing plate - that happened to me once with almost new pads (1.11), and they sent me a new set to replace and told me they changed something to prevent that in the future. The next set wore to the backing plate normally, while running in teens at Sebring - pretty good test. BTW, Ferodo claims that on heavy high-hp cars 3.12 will last longer than any other compound they have. It also requires some heat to stabilize friction - it tends to mess up ABS a little when braking at 100% when completely cold. So it's not really spring but rather a long-lasting high-friction compound, probably at expense of slightly higher rotor wear. My last OEM rotors went through one set of 1.11 and two sets of 3.12 and were still fine, and would need to be replaced due to cracking before they would wear to the limit.

Last edited by MaxLTV; 10-16-2021 at 03:35 PM.
Old 10-16-2021 | 03:22 PM
  #24  
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Last edited by MaxLTV; 10-16-2021 at 03:29 PM.
Old 10-16-2021 | 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Il CP
I have found that SRF will be much more stable through sessions. Also, I have found SRF to be much more stable between sessions, i.e boiling while parked. I have also tested RBF for water, and after 2 months, it was "wet". SRF may be a bit more expensive, but I use,a lot less of it. So I see no point in settling for less.
SRF is good stuff - I’m also very impressed with Endless RF650 - lasts forever…
Old 10-16-2021 | 11:15 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
+1 SRF is magic. Easily lasts a year and I've never boiled it - And to be clear I am not easy on brakes.
+2 on SRF. I have been using it for many years in my 996 GT3.




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