Porsche: Turbo-free 911 Carrera “not really feasible”
06-16-2020, 02:33 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Porsche: Turbo-free 911 Carrera “not really feasible”
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...eally-feasible
Porsche won't follow the recent return of naturally aspirated engines to the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman with a turbo-free 911 Carrera, its sports car boss has revealed.Speaking to Autocar before the unveiling of the new 911 Targa, Frank-Steffen Walliser admitted that it’s “not really feasible” to take Porsche’s new 4.0-litre engine (which is found in the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder and detuned for use in the Cayman GTS and Boxster GTS) and spend money on rotating it 180deg for use in the rear of the 911.
When asked if there’s a desire for natural aspiration to return to the 911 in non-GT form, Walliser said: “You ask if there’s a desire. I will not deny that. But the reality tells me it will not happen. I would love to do something like that… [but] the research and development costs are too high to develop such an engine for the Carrera.”
Turbocharger-free power will reappear in the next 911 GT3, which is expected to be shown in the coming months.
GT division boss Andreas Preuninger told Autocar: “Our philosophy in GT cars is to stay naturally aspirated.”
Walliser also spoke of the much-discussed hybrid 911, which is due later in the 992 generation’s life. Porsche has a number of technical hurdles to clear before it can launch this model, with the “biggest burden” being managing the additional weight of electric powertrain components.
Space is another issue, said Walliser: “We have to package everything, because the car is relatively small. We don’t want to give up the 2+2 layout, the architecture or the shape of the car, because these are part of the 911 story.”
“Return on investment”, meaning the balance of the compromises versus the end result of greater power and efficiency, is a focus for Porsche with the hybrid 911.
When asked if there’s a desire for natural aspiration to return to the 911 in non-GT form, Walliser said: “You ask if there’s a desire. I will not deny that. But the reality tells me it will not happen. I would love to do something like that… [but] the research and development costs are too high to develop such an engine for the Carrera.”
Turbocharger-free power will reappear in the next 911 GT3, which is expected to be shown in the coming months.
GT division boss Andreas Preuninger told Autocar: “Our philosophy in GT cars is to stay naturally aspirated.”
Walliser also spoke of the much-discussed hybrid 911, which is due later in the 992 generation’s life. Porsche has a number of technical hurdles to clear before it can launch this model, with the “biggest burden” being managing the additional weight of electric powertrain components.
Space is another issue, said Walliser: “We have to package everything, because the car is relatively small. We don’t want to give up the 2+2 layout, the architecture or the shape of the car, because these are part of the 911 story.”
“Return on investment”, meaning the balance of the compromises versus the end result of greater power and efficiency, is a focus for Porsche with the hybrid 911.
06-16-2020, 02:36 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
This has already been discussed at length.
Porsche wants you to buy what they have currently on sale and then buy again when they get around to building what the market/you really wanted in the first place. It's a form of design obsolescence.
The 4.0L will make its way into the 911. It is based on the 3.0 turbo unit already found in the 911. I fail to see how removing parts (the turbocharger and piping) will cause the engine to suddenly not fit.
Porsche wants you to buy what they have currently on sale and then buy again when they get around to building what the market/you really wanted in the first place. It's a form of design obsolescence.
The 4.0L will make its way into the 911. It is based on the 3.0 turbo unit already found in the 911. I fail to see how removing parts (the turbocharger and piping) will cause the engine to suddenly not fit.
06-16-2020, 04:05 PM
#3
Drifting
Many of us have been saying this since 2016. Hold on to those 991.1 Carreras. The last of the naturally aspirated, non-GT, 911s. They will hold their value well and more important, it is just an awesome driving experience, the way those engines sound, smell and deliver their power.
Last edited by Porsche911GTS'16; 06-16-2020 at 04:25 PM.
06-16-2020, 06:32 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Many of us have been saying this since 2016. Hold on to those 991.1 Carreras. The last of the naturally aspirated, non-GT, 911s. They will hold their value well and more important, it is just an awesome driving experience, the way those engines sound, smell and deliver their power.
A naturally aspirated non-GT spec will happen in the 992. Porsche hasn't even dropped the GTS yet. Give it time.
06-16-2020, 07:32 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
They will continue with the same formula (and most importantly the same profitability), for the 992 generation. I don't expect to see a single non turbo charged 992 carrera model.
06-16-2020, 08:00 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
I hope you're right, but I highly doubt it. Porsche already covered that with the GT3 touring.........for which they can charge a lot more than a NA carrera model, without spending much more in R & D, as the Touring is simply a standard GT3 without a wing.
They will continue with the same formula (and most importantly the same profitability), for the 992 generation. I don't expect to see a single non turbo charged 992 carrera model.
They will continue with the same formula (and most importantly the same profitability), for the 992 generation. I don't expect to see a single non turbo charged 992 carrera model.
The Touring is actually MUCH more special than the “regular” GT3 according to the Touring owners.
The following users liked this post:
haen (06-16-2020)
06-16-2020, 08:01 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I hope you're right, but I highly doubt it. Porsche already covered that with the GT3 touring.........for which they can charge a lot more than a NA carrera model, without spending much more in R & D, as the Touring is simply a standard GT3 without a wing.
They will continue with the same formula (and most importantly the same profitability), for the 992 generation. I don't expect to see a single non turbo charged 992 carrera model.
They will continue with the same formula (and most importantly the same profitability), for the 992 generation. I don't expect to see a single non turbo charged 992 carrera model.
Porsche is the king of parts sharing. No way that 4.0 isn't going in the 992.
Porsche's CEO said to expect more variants of the 992 than ever before: https://www.thedrive.com/news/27138/...ariants-report
Trending Topics
06-16-2020, 09:19 PM
#8
Drifting
Haen - you and I must be reading different press clippings. I have seen no evidence that Porsche has any inclination to re-introduce the NA engine in non-GT cars. The report that starts this thread further supports that, straight from the horse's mouth. No way the 992.1 GTS is NA. The days of the NA engine in the Carrera are over. Might they have some limited edition NA Carrera in the future? Perhaps. But a mass-produced offering? No way. They can only produce so many NA engines in order to meet the ever-tightening emissions restrictions. Porsche got rid of the NA engine in the Carrera line by necessity, not by choice. That is well-established. As much as they would like to go back, they just can't, from a mass-produced car standpoint.
Guest89 - as a Touring owner, I cannot recall ever seeing someone on RL say that the Touring is better than the winged GT3. I certainly have not. It was just an option, one that was not selected my many for whatever reasons (it also was not offered until late in the production cycle). Anyone who says the Touring is better than the winged GT3 is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Sure, perhaps people say they prefer the Touring over the winged GT3. I certainly do. But to say it is better, there is just nothing to support that.
Guest89 - as a Touring owner, I cannot recall ever seeing someone on RL say that the Touring is better than the winged GT3. I certainly have not. It was just an option, one that was not selected my many for whatever reasons (it also was not offered until late in the production cycle). Anyone who says the Touring is better than the winged GT3 is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Sure, perhaps people say they prefer the Touring over the winged GT3. I certainly do. But to say it is better, there is just nothing to support that.
06-17-2020, 01:39 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Guest89 - as a Touring owner, I cannot recall ever seeing someone on RL say that the Touring is better than the winged GT3. I certainly have not. It was just an option, one that was not selected my many for whatever reasons (it also was not offered until late in the production cycle). Anyone who says the Touring is better than the winged GT3 is looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Sure, perhaps people say they prefer the Touring over the winged GT3. I certainly do. But to say it is better, there is just nothing to support that.
The Touring is, apparently, its own model
The Touring is a “special” car for “special” people with “special” powers of discernment (in terms of both aesthetics and performance), who are sufficiently enlightened to appreciate the wondrousness of the Touring
The Touring is better than the 911 R (these are the most entertaining, IMO)
The Touring represents better value, will appreciate more, is better for PTS, blah blah
06-17-2020, 01:54 AM
#10
Drifting
Guest89: What you say above could apply to many on Rennlist. RS, R, Touring, T - you name it. You may not think another person's car is "special" and that is fine. So much of Rennlist is just opinion, after all. Your opinion on the Touring and its owners is pretty clear. I'd venture to guess, few, if any, of the Touring owners really care what you think about our car or our opinions. I certainly don't. Have a nice day.
06-17-2020, 01:56 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Forget it. Porsche will not do n/a in the non gt cars, possibly they will with the hybrid drive train. But not stand alone. The ship sailed.
sitting all these out driving antiques, which are quite good, fun, and entertaining, for the full electric 911.
sitting all these out driving antiques, which are quite good, fun, and entertaining, for the full electric 911.
The following users liked this post:
Porsche911GTS'16 (06-17-2020)
06-17-2020, 02:09 AM
#12
Drifting
Yeah, it's a paradigm shift, similar to the change from air-cooled to water-cooled engines. I'm just glad that Porsche still offers a naturally aspirated offering at all, and one with a manual transmission to boot. For me, anyway, turbocharging the Carrera lineup really homogenized the 911 lineup, notwithstanding the GT3 and RS. Back in the day, (991.1 and prior), you had the NA offerings and the Turbo offerings. Very distinct driving experiences. Now that the Carreras are all turbocharged, it makes the 911 more like BMW and Mercedes - mass produced cars, all of which have turbochargers on them. Nothing wrong with a turbocharged engine, mind you, but the NA engine set Porsche apart from its competitors and now, with the exception of the GT cars, that distinguishing characteristic is bye, bye.
06-17-2020, 02:31 AM
#13
Race Director
Originally Posted by Guest89
You must be new here.
The Touring is actually MUCH more special than the “regular” GT3 according to the Touring owners.
The Touring is actually MUCH more special than the “regular” GT3 according to the Touring owners.
06-17-2020, 08:20 AM
#14
If you believe Touring owners their cars will be worth more than a 959 very shortly. 
06-17-2020, 01:38 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Haen - you and I must be reading different press clippings. I have seen no evidence that Porsche has any inclination to re-introduce the NA engine in non-GT cars. The report that starts this thread further supports that, straight from the horse's mouth. No way the 992.1 GTS is NA. The days of the NA engine in the Carrera are over. Might they have some limited edition NA Carrera in the future? Perhaps. But a mass-produced offering? No way. They can only produce so many NA engines in order to meet the ever-tightening emissions restrictions. Porsche got rid of the NA engine in the Carrera line by necessity, not by choice. That is well-established. As much as they would like to go back, they just can't, from a mass-produced car standpoint.
Regarding the linked article, it also mentions that Porsche plans to expand the 911 range to a third "lifestyle" segment (whatever that means). In short, the number of 992 variants is going to expand dramatically and not only in the GT lineup.