djcxxx

You are being logical and objective and this is a Porsche internet forum where anecdote and rumor are offered up as preferable since they facilitate endless debate whereas facts do not.

mikex25

you do make a good point, what fun is it when there isn't that one bad egg to disagree just to disagree.

sticky

Notice what 911 the people who think this isn't a bargain have...

What really cracks me up are the guys saying 'only' 30 hp. Do they not realize you can throw a tune on top? It's a turbo upgrade with the factory's blessing that with a tune should put the car ahead of a 991.1 Turbo. You're buying potentially 100+ hp not 30.

Is it a value now?

sticky

Perfectly put.

STG

A $2K software tune won't get you 70HP+

Spend $9k for X51 30HP, and only $2K for 70HP??

sticky

Maybe you are new to tuning turbo motors or to the 9A2 engine? I mean the only thing funny there is your lack of platform knowledge.

Not to worry, I'll tutor you. Here's specs taken from this article: http://www.****************/content.p...ocharger-sizes

9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera

Horsepower: 370
Torque: 332 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 13.1 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 49mm compressor/45mm turbine

9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera S

Horsepower: 420
Torque: 369 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 16.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 51mm compressor/45mm turbine

9A2 3.0 991.2 Carrera GTS

Horsepower: 450
Torque: 405 lb-ft
Boost Pressure: 18.0 psi
Bore x Stroke: 91mm x 76.4mm
Redline: 7500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Intercooler: Air to Air
Turbos: 55mm compressor/48mm turbine

Now, look at a tuned graph for the 991.2 Carrera from GIAC:


Notice 100 lb-ft of torque AT THE WHEELS gained at 3000 rpm. This is on a more conservative Mustang dyno which I myself have also dyno'd my 991.2 on.

Peak power goes up by 54 as the curve levels off toward redline. That is roughly 75 crank horsepower or so depending on what drivetrain loss figures you ascribe to. Yet you just stated that isn't possible? Well, it's staring you in the face.

So, you think the GTS with its larger wheels that will hold the torque curve further to right will not show larger horsepower power gains with a tune?

I'd love to hear why.

You're paying for a factory backed and tested turbo upgrade with the potential of offering over 100 horsepower over the Carrera S 420 as I already stated. Maybe now you'll understand.

STG

Every ECU Tuner has graphs to sell their product. I'd like to see it out on a straight line in real world.

All I ever see are graphs and never any real world proof. No videos ever. Show me a video of a .2 C2S or GTS beating a .1 Turbo S

No hardware changes and 70HP+?? Ain't buying it.

Anyway, have fun

sticky

I can lead you to the water but I can't force you to drink it.

The amount of turbo or forced induction vehicles gaining 70+ hp tune only these days is too long to list. I can see why this is shocking for 991.1 owners.

Somewhat disappointing the level of technical discourse among Porsche owners isn't higher caliber.

STG

Homey don't play Turbo .... I'll leave the discussion to the whizzers. Have a good night

surquhar

Are you being serious? Look at any of the new Turbo Mercedes/Audi's/BMW's/ etc.. they are all picking up 70 or more hp with nothing but a tune. Check out any independent sources all showing the same. Wow do you spend all your time in the HFS thread???

STG

Why the hell would I be reading up on other turbo brands? I have zero interest in any of it.

Yes, I spent all my time on HFS and the GT FORUM. Silly me.

Anyway, link up some videos please that I can look at I'll let you enlighten me. I'm willing to watch and learn.

surquhar

Dude get off your high horse and take ten seconds and do a google search. Sorry I thought people here were car enthusiasts that enjoy comparing all new cars. You know reading c/d, motor trend, etc. Don't worry, just go back to your funny gifs (I know you know how to google) in the HFS thread where the biggest topic is " Is this car HFS worthy"

sticky

It's a matter of basic turbo understanding. You don't have to 'follow' other brands. If you don't know what you are talking about though why would you say you can't gain 70+ hp?

You mention a hardware change is needed. Well, Porsche is providing you that hardware change. That is what the larger turbos are.

The hardware is capable of much more than 30 hp. As is the factory Carrera and Carrera S turbo hardware.

That is why I shared the compressor/turbine wheel sizes with you.

I can't give you a video of a GTS beating a 911 Turbo as I'm not in charge of what GTS owners do with their cars and I am also unaware of any GTS tune being out already.

However, you have a timeslip of a C4S with a tune on 21's running 11.1.

More data, videos, etc., will come out. I'll provide a video of my car for you as soon as I get a tune. I'll make it versus a 911.1 Carrera S just for you.

Valvefloat991

It's a shame you can't apply the X51 kit to the base Carrera. Gaining 80 hp for $7500 bucks would be a great deal, especially since the engine internals are all the same.

It's clearly too much of a bargain for Porsche to stomach. And nobody would buy a Carrera S.

sticky

Whomever gets the software to flash to allow it will have the golden tuning key.

It's just a matter of time. Just by then you will probably have hybrid options if not new turbo options altogether.