FSBO purchase transaction advice needed please
03-16-2017, 12:57 AM
#1
FSBO purchase transaction advice needed please
Looking for advice on appropriate measures necessary to complete a
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
03-16-2017, 02:59 AM
#2
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Looking for advice on appropriate measures necessary to complete a
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
Good luck!🍀
03-16-2017, 11:34 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Looking for advice on appropriate measures necessary to complete a
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
safe transaction, with a Lien/loan title, private owner. Specifically, what paperwork should I have before any money get sent. To complicate things even more, the owner just refinanced the car, and could be 3 to four weeks before he gets title. Car is in Texas, l'm in Michigan.
Help please! Thanks in advance!
1. First and foremast, you are "buying" the seller as much as the car. Communications should be timely, transparent, and with a willingness to share data, answer questions, and assist with logistics. Any reluctance, too many "i don't know's", and difficulty in connecting should be a BIG warning.
2. Do all your due diligence as if this is just one of many cars that are available to you. Check your emotions and never be afraid or shy to ask questions, seek documentation, and verify information independently. RL is a fabulous means to do this with so many experienced owners and buyers here.
3. I always try for a personal inspection (in addition to a PPI) to meet the owner, check out the car and documentation, and reach agreement in writing on what is included in the sale, down to keys, books, records, accessories, service level, etc. On the test drive, have the current owner drive the car first for at least 5 or more miles. You can learn a lot just from that in terms of they handle the car and any questions you have while they are at the wheel.
4. Prepare a Bill of Sale in advance and share it with the seller after you agree that you want the car at an agreed price and pick up/delivery date. Offer a small, but reasonable and refundable deposit to hold the car ($1-2K) pending completion of PPI, payment means and methods. Th B/S should note the VIN, the agreed options, extras, and define the method of funds transfer and title receipt. I have several examples I would be willing to share via PM or email.
5. Since the car is financed, ALL funds (except the deposit) should be paid to the lien holder at time of pickup of the car. The B/S should clearly state that the lienholder will supply clear title (request and get a copy of the current title showing who the lien holder is) to the vehicle within a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks). I always use a bank wire transfer originated in person with my bank officer, and have them contact the lien holder person via telephone in my presence and agree to what the transaction is (i.e. vehicle, owner, VIN, loan balance, etc.). I then include that info on the memo that accompanies the wire transfer.
6. If you get the car before title is received, request (via the Bill of Sale) that you are permitted/authorized to use the current owners plates to get the car to you and get title/tag work done when title is received.
7. Make sure you have full insurance on the vehicle on the date of actual possession. Don't wait for the title to arrive. The car is yours once the payment is made and you take possession.
That's what I have for now. Feel free to PM me and look for more good guidance from the pros and attorneys on RL.
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03-16-2017, 11:57 AM
#8
sounds like the guy has a lein, and not a title, you should be buying the car from the bank, not the guy. I would make the transaction with the bank. Tell him to let you make contact with the leinholder and find out what they know about it.
03-16-2017, 12:05 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
In my humble opinion, there is risk that can be largely mitigated by meeting the seller at the seller's bank office and having the transaction occur completely at the lien-holder's location. I do it this way even without a lien. Any other way is risky in my opinion. The resulting reduction in risk is well worth the airfare or drive, plus it gives you a chance to personally vet the car beyond the PPI just to be make absolutely sure.
The bank can verify the lien details and lock in the payoff, your cashier's check can be verified (to the seller's benefit), and the bank will make sure that both parties get the proper paperwork and funds due to them in hand before they leave (maybe not the title itself immediately, but I'd trust the bank to get the title to you more than I'd trust an individual).
My risk gauge on this one went up a bit when I saw the sentence about the seller just refinancing... to me that could indicate the need for an extra level of caution. You are talking about a lot of money to take any chances with.
The bank can verify the lien details and lock in the payoff, your cashier's check can be verified (to the seller's benefit), and the bank will make sure that both parties get the proper paperwork and funds due to them in hand before they leave (maybe not the title itself immediately, but I'd trust the bank to get the title to you more than I'd trust an individual).
My risk gauge on this one went up a bit when I saw the sentence about the seller just refinancing... to me that could indicate the need for an extra level of caution. You are talking about a lot of money to take any chances with.
03-16-2017, 03:46 PM
#10
Drifting
I've bought several cars long-distance, but those all had titles, and I've also bought a few locally that required a pay-off.
No issues. Well, one issue, when my certified check to pay off his loan was lost. Getting that cancelled, reissued, and the loan paid-off, plus the extra month of interest taken care of was a bit of a nightmare.
As stated though, you are buying the seller, not the car. So keep that in mind.
In fact, it was my first 911, bought from a guy in NC who had the title at a bank in TN and it took two months to get it. I had employment issues and sold the car as soon as I got the title, so I never really "owned" it, which saved me a bunch in taxes and fees. But I digress.
Some sellers won't do everything that SFZ suggested in step 5, which sounds hideously complicated if the seller has any equity at all. But otherwise, his suggestions are right on the mark.
No issues. Well, one issue, when my certified check to pay off his loan was lost. Getting that cancelled, reissued, and the loan paid-off, plus the extra month of interest taken care of was a bit of a nightmare.
As stated though, you are buying the seller, not the car. So keep that in mind.
In fact, it was my first 911, bought from a guy in NC who had the title at a bank in TN and it took two months to get it. I had employment issues and sold the car as soon as I got the title, so I never really "owned" it, which saved me a bunch in taxes and fees. But I digress.
Some sellers won't do everything that SFZ suggested in step 5, which sounds hideously complicated if the seller has any equity at all. But otherwise, his suggestions are right on the mark.
03-16-2017, 04:13 PM
#12
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The full transaction needs to happen through the bank/lien holder. If I were you - I'd invest in a flight and see the car loaded onto a trailer and fly home if you're not going to drive it home. Do the paperwork at the bank, they'll have a notary there and limit risk in not having all the paperwork. If done completely remote - talk to the bank with seller and hope he's ethical when you send a check.
As others have mentioned - you're buying the seller AND the car.
03-16-2017, 04:20 PM
#13
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Red67vert, I'll add my .02 worth based on a number of distance transactions as both a buyer and seller. I'm just finished my latest on a 991 C2S coming from a private party in WA state to me in FL. A few pointers:
1. First and foremast, you are "buying" the seller as much as the car. Communications should be timely, transparent, and with a willingness to share data, answer questions, and assist with logistics. Any reluctance, too many "i don't know's", and difficulty in connecting should be a BIG warning.
2. Do all your due diligence as if this is just one of many cars that are available to you. Check your emotions and never be afraid or shy to ask questions, seek documentation, and verify information independently. RL is a fabulous means to do this with so many experienced owners and buyers here.
3. I always try for a personal inspection (in addition to a PPI) to meet the owner, check out the car and documentation, and reach agreement in writing on what is included in the sale, down to keys, books, records, accessories, service level, etc. On the test drive, have the current owner drive the car first for at least 5 or more miles. You can learn a lot just from that in terms of they handle the car and any questions you have while they are at the wheel.
4. Prepare a Bill of Sale in advance and share it with the seller after you agree that you want the car at an agreed price and pick up/delivery date. Offer a small, but reasonable and refundable deposit to hold the car ($1-2K) pending completion of PPI, payment means and methods. Th B/S should note the VIN, the agreed options, extras, and define the method of funds transfer and title receipt. I have several examples I would be willing to share via PM or email.
5. Since the car is financed, ALL funds (except the deposit) should be paid to the lien holder at time of pickup of the car. The B/S should clearly state that the lienholder will supply clear title (request and get a copy of the current title showing who the lien holder is) to the vehicle within a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks). I always use a bank wire transfer originated in person with my bank officer, and have them contact the lien holder person via telephone in my presence and agree to what the transaction is (i.e. vehicle, owner, VIN, loan balance, etc.). I then include that info on the memo that accompanies the wire transfer.
6. If you get the car before title is received, request (via the Bill of Sale) that you are permitted/authorized to use the current owners plates to get the car to you and get title/tag work done when title is received.
7. Make sure you have full insurance on the vehicle on the date of actual possession. Don't wait for the title to arrive. The car is yours once the payment is made and you take possession.
That's what I have for now. Feel free to PM me and look for more good guidance from the pros and attorneys on RL.
1. First and foremast, you are "buying" the seller as much as the car. Communications should be timely, transparent, and with a willingness to share data, answer questions, and assist with logistics. Any reluctance, too many "i don't know's", and difficulty in connecting should be a BIG warning.
2. Do all your due diligence as if this is just one of many cars that are available to you. Check your emotions and never be afraid or shy to ask questions, seek documentation, and verify information independently. RL is a fabulous means to do this with so many experienced owners and buyers here.
3. I always try for a personal inspection (in addition to a PPI) to meet the owner, check out the car and documentation, and reach agreement in writing on what is included in the sale, down to keys, books, records, accessories, service level, etc. On the test drive, have the current owner drive the car first for at least 5 or more miles. You can learn a lot just from that in terms of they handle the car and any questions you have while they are at the wheel.
4. Prepare a Bill of Sale in advance and share it with the seller after you agree that you want the car at an agreed price and pick up/delivery date. Offer a small, but reasonable and refundable deposit to hold the car ($1-2K) pending completion of PPI, payment means and methods. Th B/S should note the VIN, the agreed options, extras, and define the method of funds transfer and title receipt. I have several examples I would be willing to share via PM or email.
5. Since the car is financed, ALL funds (except the deposit) should be paid to the lien holder at time of pickup of the car. The B/S should clearly state that the lienholder will supply clear title (request and get a copy of the current title showing who the lien holder is) to the vehicle within a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks). I always use a bank wire transfer originated in person with my bank officer, and have them contact the lien holder person via telephone in my presence and agree to what the transaction is (i.e. vehicle, owner, VIN, loan balance, etc.). I then include that info on the memo that accompanies the wire transfer.
6. If you get the car before title is received, request (via the Bill of Sale) that you are permitted/authorized to use the current owners plates to get the car to you and get title/tag work done when title is received.
7. Make sure you have full insurance on the vehicle on the date of actual possession. Don't wait for the title to arrive. The car is yours once the payment is made and you take possession.
That's what I have for now. Feel free to PM me and look for more good guidance from the pros and attorneys on RL.
People to call: The lien holder & Your insurance company. Advice here is fine but you need to check their processes.
03-16-2017, 05:22 PM
#14
6 & 7 could be tough. I wouldn't let anyone else use my tags... The paperwork (or copies) will be enough to satisfy any badge that might pull you over. In most states you are covered for 30 days from purchase automatically but it would be responsible to have insurance documentation and make the changes the day of a transaction.
People to call: The lien holder & Your insurance company. Advice here is fine but you need to check their processes.
People to call: The lien holder & Your insurance company. Advice here is fine but you need to check their processes.
Red67vert, I'll add my .02 worth based on a number of distance transactions as both a buyer and seller. I'm just finished my latest on a 991 C2S coming from a private party in WA state to me in FL. A few pointers:
1. First and foremast, you are "buying" the seller as much as the car. Communications should be timely, transparent, and with a willingness to share data, answer questions, and assist with logistics. Any reluctance, too many "i don't know's", and difficulty in connecting should be a BIG warning.
2. Do all your due diligence as if this is just one of many cars that are available to you. Check your emotions and never be afraid or shy to ask questions, seek documentation, and verify information independently. RL is a fabulous means to do this with so many experienced owners and buyers here.
3. I always try for a personal inspection (in addition to a PPI) to meet the owner, check out the car and documentation, and reach agreement in writing on what is included in the sale, down to keys, books, records, accessories, service level, etc. On the test drive, have the current owner drive the car first for at least 5 or more miles. You can learn a lot just from that in terms of they handle the car and any questions you have while they are at the wheel.
4. Prepare a Bill of Sale in advance and share it with the seller after you agree that you want the car at an agreed price and pick up/delivery date. Offer a small, but reasonable and refundable deposit to hold the car ($1-2K) pending completion of PPI, payment means and methods. Th B/S should note the VIN, the agreed options, extras, and define the method of funds transfer and title receipt. I have several examples I would be willing to share via PM or email.
5. Since the car is financed, ALL funds (except the deposit) should be paid to the lien holder at time of pickup of the car. The B/S should clearly state that the lienholder will supply clear title (request and get a copy of the current title showing who the lien holder is) to the vehicle within a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks). I always use a bank wire transfer originated in person with my bank officer, and have them contact the lien holder person via telephone in my presence and agree to what the transaction is (i.e. vehicle, owner, VIN, loan balance, etc.). I then include that info on the memo that accompanies the wire transfer.
6. If you get the car before title is received, request (via the Bill of Sale) that you are permitted/authorized to use the current owners plates to get the car to you and get title/tag work done when title is received.
7. Make sure you have full insurance on the vehicle on the date of actual possession. Don't wait for the title to arrive. The car is yours once the payment is made and you take possession.
That's what I have for now. Feel free to PM me and look for more good guidance from the pros and attorneys on RL.
1. First and foremast, you are "buying" the seller as much as the car. Communications should be timely, transparent, and with a willingness to share data, answer questions, and assist with logistics. Any reluctance, too many "i don't know's", and difficulty in connecting should be a BIG warning.
2. Do all your due diligence as if this is just one of many cars that are available to you. Check your emotions and never be afraid or shy to ask questions, seek documentation, and verify information independently. RL is a fabulous means to do this with so many experienced owners and buyers here.
3. I always try for a personal inspection (in addition to a PPI) to meet the owner, check out the car and documentation, and reach agreement in writing on what is included in the sale, down to keys, books, records, accessories, service level, etc. On the test drive, have the current owner drive the car first for at least 5 or more miles. You can learn a lot just from that in terms of they handle the car and any questions you have while they are at the wheel.
4. Prepare a Bill of Sale in advance and share it with the seller after you agree that you want the car at an agreed price and pick up/delivery date. Offer a small, but reasonable and refundable deposit to hold the car ($1-2K) pending completion of PPI, payment means and methods. Th B/S should note the VIN, the agreed options, extras, and define the method of funds transfer and title receipt. I have several examples I would be willing to share via PM or email.
5. Since the car is financed, ALL funds (except the deposit) should be paid to the lien holder at time of pickup of the car. The B/S should clearly state that the lienholder will supply clear title (request and get a copy of the current title showing who the lien holder is) to the vehicle within a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks). I always use a bank wire transfer originated in person with my bank officer, and have them contact the lien holder person via telephone in my presence and agree to what the transaction is (i.e. vehicle, owner, VIN, loan balance, etc.). I then include that info on the memo that accompanies the wire transfer.
6. If you get the car before title is received, request (via the Bill of Sale) that you are permitted/authorized to use the current owners plates to get the car to you and get title/tag work done when title is received.
7. Make sure you have full insurance on the vehicle on the date of actual possession. Don't wait for the title to arrive. The car is yours once the payment is made and you take possession.
That's what I have for now. Feel free to PM me and look for more good guidance from the pros and attorneys on RL.
03-16-2017, 10:07 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Couple of tips...
- Photograph and email each other a copy of your drivers license. Google each other, make sure everyone seems legit.
- Contact lien holder on a conference call with the seller. Confirm payoff. Confirm if you can send the payoff amount directly to them (with balance if any to seller). Confirm the processing time.
- Write a bill of sale defining the title payoff and transfer process as confirmed above. Both parties sign it before money is wired.
- Wire the money, trust the seller, trust the lender, trust the shipper.
Sounds complicated, but in reality it happens every day without a hitch. Just make sure you trust your seller and that you both have a full and complete understanding of the process.
Also, plates typically do not transfer with a vehicle, even if the title is still being processed. Most (all?) states will allow you to get temp tags with just a bill of sale, full plates with a title.
Ditto on insurance... You want YOUR insurance covering the vehicle from the day you wire funds. Many states give automatic coverage if you have your other vehicles insured with a carrier, but that doesn't mean that it won't be under-insured. Check with your agent.
- Photograph and email each other a copy of your drivers license. Google each other, make sure everyone seems legit.
- Contact lien holder on a conference call with the seller. Confirm payoff. Confirm if you can send the payoff amount directly to them (with balance if any to seller). Confirm the processing time.
- Write a bill of sale defining the title payoff and transfer process as confirmed above. Both parties sign it before money is wired.
- Wire the money, trust the seller, trust the lender, trust the shipper.
Sounds complicated, but in reality it happens every day without a hitch. Just make sure you trust your seller and that you both have a full and complete understanding of the process.
Also, plates typically do not transfer with a vehicle, even if the title is still being processed. Most (all?) states will allow you to get temp tags with just a bill of sale, full plates with a title.
Ditto on insurance... You want YOUR insurance covering the vehicle from the day you wire funds. Many states give automatic coverage if you have your other vehicles insured with a carrier, but that doesn't mean that it won't be under-insured. Check with your agent.