911seeker

the point is: if you can live without an sport car, sell it asap and minimize losses. If you can't, the cheapest thing to do is keep it as long as you can live with it...

jimbo1111

I believe the 991 GTS is a very good car but it isn't a great car. No 991 is. The streched out body frame created problemes where there were none. Understeer! Remedy RWS. Personally I think the 997 series is a much better drivers car. The GTS could have bin but porsche sorta ruined it with the 7 speed and it's tall gearing and over aggressive electronic interference to compensate for fuel efficiency and as i stated understeer. My dealer let me drive an R and it just ruined it for me. It wasnt so much the engine but the gearing that was transformative. Still has understeer though. Rws sourt of masks it. Back to electronic interferance. Bad design if the remedy is worse than the disease. Shortly thereafter I decided to sell my GTS. Reason is because I know porsche is in shackles over efficiency and compliance. it's hard enough to build a great car without oversite but knowing that interference can spoil a a good recipe. I've decided to back away for a bit and see what the future has in store.

MinMay

The GTS or any cars will bottom out at some point in the future. I can guarantee you that it won't bottom at $0 Like other said, car is not an investment unless you have money for those limited production cars.

What other cars are you planning to replace it with? Would you rather own a used $100K Porsche or a new $100K BMW? I'll take the used Porsche every time

Good luck with your decision.

Geiss

As a disenchanted GTS owner, I too was going to back off and watch, and I'm sure the 992 will be a stunner when it's released, but after a TTS test drive I was sold. Admittedly I never drove the GTS prior to purchase, lesson learned. I'm sure a year or two from now I'll be looking at other cars, but the TTS checks most boxes. The only step up from a TTS is a 488, but that'll be a few more years before it depreciates enough.

GrantG

That is simply not true, but it certainly is unusual that a car is a good financial decision (I can think of quite a few cars that were cheap to buy and are worth millions today - GTS will not be one of them...unless it's a 906 GTS). Even a few modern/new models have far outperformed the stock market like 997 RS 4.0 and 991 911R...

c_Gio

918
CGT
...

Archimedes

Yeah, other than the fact that the 991 outperforms the 997 in every way, while also being more comfortable and more fuel efficient. Other than that, the 997's clearly the better car...

Larry Cable

I think I recall the thread on that

If you are still happy with the car, then I would keep it, if you feel like its "soiled goods" then I would probably let the dealer cope with the problem of
selling it on... unless you feel like there is still some money to be made buying
it out, and then flipping it yourself ... even then ...

my lease is up in Nov and I plan on buying the car out, but I think if it had been in an accident, I *might* try and order a .2 GTS and twist my dealers arm to pull fwd my current lease into a new car!

jimbo1111

Driving experience and vehicle performance are two very different aspects. 991 will completely outperform a 997 in all measurable ways. Its just a numb experience behind the wheel while doing so.

GregD

Don't mean to get into an engineering contest of wits here, I'm not qualified (I'm an engineer but not in chassis dynamics ;-) Just impressions from a fellow owner:

I'll just point out that ALL 911s have been understeering pigs since 1964, possibly earlier if you count the prototypes ;-) They only oversteer when you are committed into a turn and lifting! Is it possible that the numbness you feel is less tactile feedback from the electric power steering assist ? Check out my avatar (over there on left) and the 72 was a total pig untl I had the front end reset more aggressively and played a lot with pressures to boxsterize it. Now it's possibly a little too nervous out back... Ugh !

I'm not sure how one measures understeer quantifiably between cars and if such charts exist.. Sooooo much of it is dependent on tires, pressure etc... What I find amusing with your comment (and I do respect it, just amusing in the how we can all perceive different things) is how my experience differs... in theory I believe you are right that a longer wheel base lends itself to more stability and therefore more resistance to initial turn in, yet... this 991 of mine reminds me of the best turn-in car I know, the Cayman. Much much better than the 996 and frankly to me noticeably better than the 997. Could be me, my tires, my lower pressures - I run 30F-33R.... I think there are other factors such as front end geometry "magic" (a technical term to be sure), overall weight balance, mostly tire grip and pressure, or whatever that affect turn in... I've found the 991 to be just as good/bad in terms of overall understeer as any of the 911s I've owned (72-73-83-96-2002-2006) but more planted and with possibly better turn in.... Go figure ;-)

My personal gripe on those cars is how stupidly overgeared they are. Can you imagine the aceleration/fun if we can shorter ratios 1-6 ? Yowza.

Jimbo, what did you replace the GTS with ? Curious...

golfnutintib

agree

991 bloated form factor and sense of isolation are demerits at sane speeds

GregD

I'll jump on that one as well for giggles... You're probably right... But I remember how annoyingly loud my 996 was on tire noise (991 - perfect). How dated the interior now looks (991 perfect). The 997S I test drove immediately after a 991 felt like an oxcart to me. Isolation ? Dunno... I think you guy all need to buy yourselves a 60s-70s-80s 911 as a side car, and jump back and forth to put things in perspective ;-)

Oldies are definitely not bloated, isolating and sane speeds, but It's hella nice to jump into a 991 and rip the asphalt too... I don't think modern cars can do it all anymore, too many mandates... My previous fast(ish) car was an Audi S4 and I would be doing 100 mph without a the first clue I was above 60! no joke ! Modern cars are pretty much all like this now except lotus maybe. All good though !

PS: if I may recommend a cheap car to you all that is not bloated, full of feel, and affordable for a whort while longer? Buy an early 70s bmw 2002...

jimbo1111

Advancements in tire tech have come a long way over the years. So I'm not to sure one can relate an experience from decades ago to what is currently being offered. I don't think its fare to do so.
My main gripe with current generation is the large size, A 7 speed MT that can easily miss shift and cause a blown motor, insulated feel and feedback and most of all the interference from electronic assistance mainly due to torque vectoring.
I'm the type of driver that likes to know the limits of adhesion and dance around that static feel. That silly torque vectoring keeps changing that static knowledge and puts fear into the driver because the limit is constantly changing. It's just not fun to know that the limit is changing on you at such high rates of speed. Makes the car dangerous in fact. Cant imagine how much more RWS will add to this frustration.
991 is engineered to make an average driver look great but advanced drivers will be held back. Hope that makes sense.

I'm looking into the Ferrari 458 currently. I need some seat time first in a controlled environment before I commit.

Archimedes

Your exact words were that it 'wasn't a great car', 'had problems', 'understeers', etc. All nonsense. The whole 'driver's car' nonsense is nothing but an emperor's new clothes argument, disavowed by far better drivers and racers than you or anyone on Rennlist. The 991 is a better car than the 997 in every respect except certain people's imaginations. You might like the 997 more, personal preference, but the 'it's a better car' argument is a joke. Reminds me of all the tards in the moto community that thought their Ducati's were awesome because they had soul...

GregD

Good chat... I would disagree somewhat that the comparison is unfair as I've owned 911s of all era over the years, and I was talking about the 911 platform in general (rear engine) that is eminently understeering in nature - until you reach the limit. Personally I think 911s lore should be changed to "you will hit the guard rail head on until you learn to corner properly"... The famed oversteer part only comes in when you are doing something seriously stupid, or on purpose to tighten a line... That's what I like about those cars, they take some training to use right, and learning not to panic-lift is hard as hell...

Tires of today are on front and back of my 72, and it is just as understeering as it ever was (just better grip), until you play with pressures anyway... I'm just saying from that 72 to the 2009 I drove last before buying a 991, ALL were understeering until you reached a certain cornering speed where you play with the throttle to adjust your line. The only neutral cars I ever drove with a porsche badge were 912s (less weight out back) or cayman/boxster (mid engine). 997 to 991 did not feel like a major change to me in understeer, at least nothing like the wrong tire pressures.

I do however totally agree with your main gripes... The 7MT can miss a shift way to easily, the electrical steering is less communicative (thought not as terrible as magazines made it to be), and my car has very few options so I cannot comment on other nannies except PSM ;-)

Lovely choice of replacement, best of luck to you, it will be fun !