I'm a longtime Porsche owner (944, 944 Turbo, Boxster) looking to finally purchase a 911. I've settled on a 2013 - 2016 era 911 and could use some advice. In particular, I'm looking for 991's at a minimum with: PDK, sport chrono, sportdesign steering wheel, and bose sound. I've found the below CPO 991 C2S located in Barrington, IL that has peaked my interest.

https://motorwerks.crmsuite.com/broc...58520.41188147

The price looks attractive relative others and the options check all the boxes. Car fax is clean and indicates one owner in SC with no accidents. The high mileage worries me a bit and the car was purchased at auction after a little over 2 years on lease. Car is covered under CPO until 2020 which provides some added comfort. It's been on the market for about 2 months though and price has been cut from $79k. What am I missing, what should I be worried about, what are the key questions in your mind?

Appreciate the input!

 

Wow, 2.5 years and nearly 44k miles. Certainly no garage queen.

That's quite a bit, but on the bright side most of the miles were probably freeway miles (versus stop-and-go city traffic) which is relatively easy on the engine and drivetrain.

 

I just purchased a 2013 991 4S, and looking at that one, you can get a lower milage car for sure. Another thing is, as you probably are aware, if you purchase from private party, your tax liability is capped at $1500. Look at the 4S if you plan on driving it year round, the confidence inspiring control is really appreciated .

 

On the surface I'm not seeing any problems with it either. The CPO does provide some comfort and it does still have a fair amount of original warranty left (which covers more things than the CPO such as trim). The miles are high enough that it leads to a good part of the lower cost, and with winter coming in Chicago that is probably what is causing the more recent markdowns. The only oddity I'm seeing is whatever the heck that sticker is on the back bumper. I'd want the dealer to remove that first in case it is covering something.

 

That dealer is known for putting their stickers on cars as advertising, you see them a lot around the Chicago area.

 

The price is way too high. Should be mid/low-60K range. Just search cargurus, autotrader, etc and sort the results by price for comps.

 

Agreed.

I'd probably pay $70k max, and thats also if it also has PSE, although it being CPO is a plus. For what its worth two months ago, I paid $68k for my 2012.5 with a 7MT and 22k miles.

 

I don't know that I'd concur with "way" too high for a 2014 even with those miles. I just recently bought my third 911 and spent 3 months this summer looking before buying a 2014 and got pretty familiar with pricing.

jakemu, are you familiar with Porsche's own CPO locator site at http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors...snorthamerica/? Look under the pre-owned vehicles tab. I like looking there because it allows me to select the options I'm looking for and narrow in on those pretty simply. Some of the detail option check-boxes don't work correctly so be careful with those, they may filter out cars that match.

The car you are looking at is there although it still shows the older price. It is the highest-mileage car currently there, but like you are observing and like you'll see on the site it helps with price. I agree that getting PSE is a plus if you can find it (for me it was a must since I love the extra sound), but you are the only one that can decide if the extra low RPM sound is worth holding out for that for you. You can also have it added later at a cost.

I've bought 3 CPO 911s now and got all of then at between 5 to 8% of asking price without too much negotiating pain, so you may have some wiggle room downward still with that dealer to hit the numbers some of the others are stating here. I'm sure some of the others here play ball a little harder, but for me once I'm close enough to my price and the car is just what I want then I'm cool with calling it a deal. I've had some dealers let me walk away with a 7-8% off offer on the table and never get back in touch. I assume at that point they know they can get more.

Of course, if this car is exactly what you are looking for, then it becomes your call on how tough you are willing to be in price negotiations and how long you are willing to wait to find the ideal combo of deal and car. I don't think the car is a bad deal priced as it is although I would personally be reluctant on this one due to the higher miles since I swap cars every 2-3 years. Higher mileage cars will be harder to sell, possibly something you are seeing with this dealer's pricing.

While you'll save some money buying it up front, you'll lose that money back when you sell it layer. and it just becomes a hard sale. If you are keeping the car a long time, then it's not such a big deal.

 

Dealerships make their money on used cars. As an example a friend of mine custom ordered a 991.2, and after he negotiated a decent discount, he traded in his 2014 base which only had 7500 miles. He was given $59K for his car. That car is now being offered by the Dealer for $74,500.

 

In all honesty I don't see that as a surprise. I doubt your friend had bought new tires anytime recently prior to trading it in, so CPO requires fairly fresh N-rated tires so let's allow $1200 since I'd guess dealer's costs for those are lower. CPO policy itself it reportedly in $3k range, plus as part of CPO they would have to do any near-term major service due. But let's be conservative and say they put roughly $4k in the car to CPO it. That's leaves that about a 15% profit margin if someone offers full price. Then let's say the buyer negotiates it down about 6% and it becomes sold at $70k even. They made about $7k. They have rent, they have employees with benefits, licensing, taxes, etc.

It sounds like a lot at first but they have a business to run. It seems like business as expected and if someone is willing to pay full asking price then that is on them.

When someone wants more of that money they deal with the pain of selling the car themselves. I did that last time and came of with $5800 more than the dealer offered (but also in Texas I lost the sales tax credit on the trade-in which was worth $2800 so I only ended up with a net gain of roughly $3) And the buyer ended up with some savings too over what a similar car would have been at a dealer. I guess it was a win-win but took some time, risk, and work too.

 

If you buy this one I'll be your friend & help you drive it or drive it for ya....

https://porscheofkingsautomall.com/i...+Yellow+687920

 

So I test drove the car today. It was in very good shape overall. Had a few knicks on the bumper, wheels, and windshield but minor overall. Rubbers on drivers side door also a bit chewed up. As part of CPO car had 40k service and 2 new rear tires. Everything else was perfect with minimal signs of wear, especially for such high mileage. I offered them $65k cash to start but they countered for $71k firm ($1k discount). They claim they're already underwater on the car and could sell for more at auction which they supposedly do if a car sits for more than 60 days. According to iSeeCars this has been on the market for 57 days and price cut $8k already. I'm curious to see if it sells or if I get a call next week asking to renegotiate price.

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

One more FYI since I see they only replaced two tires... in case you decide to follow up on the car some more. You might already know this but just to be safe...

Here is a screenshot of a section of the CPO checklist. It would be interesting to see if the two new tires match up properly with the front tires as per this list. If not, then the two fronts should be done too. Maybe they do, but I'd check. I'd also hate to have significantly older front tires (lets say two years or more, you can check the date code on the tire) than rears. The four digit code on the sidewall will show the production week of the year and the year.

 

Anyone have a sense of what dealer auction price could bring? Why would a dealer pay the ask of another dealer only to then re-mark the cost up and offer via similar channels (PCNA website, cars.com, etc.). I don't think another dealer would necessarily have more luck than the current dealer who "sells nationally".

 

I can't help on the auction question. Something to consider, I mentioned in another thread yesterday you have to take into account that they spent a fair amount of money CPO'ing the car even if they did take a possible shortcut by replacing only two tires. The 40k service isn't cheap if you have it done by a dealer since it includes spark plugs, plus two tires, plus more than $3k for the CPO warranty, so the CPO in some ways is worth about $4,500 to $5,000 for a car when 40k mile service is done. Of course, that will be true of any CPO you find in the mid to high 30k miles and up or approaching 4 years old.

I'm just saying that at least you wouldn't face any big out-of-pocket costs beyond an oil change until the 60k mile service. I'm still not saying that this car is the best deal ever, but IMHO it isn't all that bad if the relatively high miles aren't a problem for you. If you have a price ceiling in that range, I don't think you'll find anything dramatically less expensive at that year. You'd want to then consider a lower miles 2013 or 2012.5, which could be a reasonable alternative for less money and they'd be the same car.