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First Traffic Ticket with my Porsche.

 
Old 07-30-2016, 01:22 PM
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trucheli
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Default First Traffic Ticket with my Porsche.

Yesterday I've got pulled over by Florida Highway Patrol going West on 836 and 87 Av. At first I thought the officer was going on a call since he turn on the sirens and lights so I proceed to moved over to the right to let him pass but the sirens and lights were for me. He told me that I was moving in and out of traffic and following to close.This was at 4:30PM with lots of traffic on the highway where everyone is almost bumper to bumper. I didn't argued and he wrote a ticket for "Following too close". To me this is total BS, what's considered following to close? How does the officer behind me can measure the distance and make a determination? Since when I am not allowed to change lanes to move thru traffic?

It seems that officers in Miami don't like to be passed even if you are within the speed limit or maybe they need to meet their ticket quotas at the end of the month. The way the law gets enforce here in South Florida has nothing to do with someone braking the law but a lot with generating revenue for their departments. I have been driving for more than 40 years with a clean record and I consider myself an above average driver with track experience and high speed driving in Germany for the last ten years.

Talking about Germany, there are no BS stops, police have better things to do than waste their time in stupid traffic stops. Speed cameras do a much better job than state troopers hiding behind trees and overpasses in order to generate revenue.

I do support law enforcement but not stupid enforcement!

Sorry about my rant, but it pisses me off to see how people drive in South Florida and nothing gets done to change or enforce the laws of the highway like drivers hugging the left lane, trucks on the left lane, no turn signals use whatsoever, talking on the phone and being oblivious to traffic around them, no full stops at red light turning right etc,etc.

Last edited by trucheli; 07-30-2016 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:27 PM
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In Miami this is so much of a non issue it's barely worth posting about. Call a lawyer and pay them $70 to take care of it.

I used to use Hochman and Goldin but there are a bunch of these guys offering flat rate ticket representation.

BTW in Germany I have been stopped twice for no good reason on Euro Delivery trips. They asked to check my papers. I'm pretty sure both times they just wanted to take a look at the car.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stealthpilot View Post
In Miami this is so much of a non issue it's barely with posting about. Call a lawyer and pay them $70 to take care of it.

I used to use Hochman and Goldin but there are a bunch of these guys offering flat rate ticket representation.
I rather go to court and fight it than paying someone that can do the same as I can and get a mark in my record even with "withhold adjudication" But my point of posting was not about paying a ticket. I guess you missed my point.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by stealthpilot View Post
In Miami this is so much of a non issue it's barely worth posting about. Call a lawyer and pay them $70 to take care of it.

I used to use Hochman and Goldin but there are a bunch of these guys offering flat rate ticket representation.

BTW in Germany I have been stopped twice for no good reason on Euro Delivery trips. They asked to check my papers. I'm pretty sure both times they just wanted to take a look at the car.
The reason that they've stopped you in Germany was because you carry a Zoll plate (tourist plate) and they want to make sure that you are the owner of the vehicle.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:52 PM
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Stuff like your ticket total BS and just revenue for the state and quota for the trooper. I think the only reason you got the ticket was because of what you were driving, not how your were driving. Not sure how you can follow too close in bumper to bumper traffic.

Plead not guilty and fight it in court. Explain the situation and how slow you were going. Worse thing to happen is that they find you guilty and you pay the fine and points. Best thing they find you not guilty, but probably what will happen is you pay a fine and no points. Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Porsche_nuts View Post
Stuff like your ticket total BS and just revenue for the state and quota for the trooper. I think the only reason you got the ticket was because of what you were driving, not how your were driving. Not sure how you can follow too close in bumper to bumper traffic.

Plead not guilty and fight it in court. Explain the situation and how slow you were going. Worse thing to happen is that they find you guilty and you pay the fine and points. Best thing they find you not guilty, but probably what will happen is you pay a fine and no points. Good luck and let us know what happens.
BS is an understatement! I will request a court date hoping that the officer does not show up or does not remember based on how I treated him. FYI on trial date if you plead not guilty your chances of getting it dismissed are slim to none because the court favors the officer unless you have convincing evidence or win on a technicality. The best thing to do is to change your plead from Not Guilty to No Contest and request Withhold Adjudication based on your record and the officer's permission.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by trucheli View Post
Yesterday I've got pulled over by Florida Highway Patrol going West on 836 and 87 Av. At first I thought the officer was going on a call since he turn on the sirens and lights so I proceed to moved over to the right to let him pass but the sirens and lights were for me. He told me that I was moving in and out of traffic and following to close.This was at 4:30PM with lots of traffic on the highway where everyone is almost bumper to bumper. I didn't argued and he wrote a ticket for "Following too close". To me this is total BS, what's considered following to close? How does the officer behind me can measure the distance and make a determination? Since when I am not allowed to change lanes to move thru traffic?

It seems that officers in Miami don't like to be passed even if you are within the speed limit or maybe they need to meet their ticket quotas at the end of the month. The way the law gets enforce here in South Florida has nothing to do with someone braking the law but a lot with generating revenue for their departments. I have been driving for more than 40 years with a clean record and I consider myself an above average driver with track experience and high speed driving in Germany for the last ten years.

Talking about Germany, there are no BS stops, police have better things to do than waste their time in stupid traffic stops. Speed cameras do a much better job than state troopers hiding behind trees and overpasses in order to generate revenue.

I do support law enforcement but not stupid enforcement!

Sorry about my rant, but it pisses me off to see how people drive in South Florida and nothing gets done to change or enforce the laws of the highway like drivers hugging the left lane, trucks on the left lane, no turn signals use whatsoever, taking on the phone and being oblivious to traffic around them,no full stops at red light turning right etc,etc.
You drive a Porsche and you got pulled over. It happens.

Who gets pulled over and who then gets a ticket is based on my experience -- and what I've been told when pulled over -- is very subjective.

Hence I fight every ticket and so far have won. The ticket is dismissed because the officer failed to appear.

I almost always enlist the help of an attorney who advertises he or his office specializes in tickets. Often he has a person who's sole job is to handle these and is very good about doing so.

It might cost me a bit more money than if I just paid the ticket, but I seek to keep my driving record clean -- with prior speeding convictions it is harder to fight new ones as one is considered a "habitual speeder" -- and to avoid any increase in insurance premiums.

Now in some areas outright fighting the ticket is not always viable. But in some areas of the country, Texas for example, probation before adjudication is offered and I have gone this route a few times always with success.

In other areas, as it was in AZ I met with the PA before appearing before the judge and she was adament about leaving the speeding ticket in effect. We talked and I went before the judge expecting a 2 or 3 pointer ticket.

However, the judge informed me it was a 1 pointer and the point would expire in IIRC 6 months. Inwardly I was celebrating but outwardly I remained composed. I paid the $75 fine and after 6 months the point was gone. No effect on my insurance premium either.

I've had officers tell me they expect owners of cars like ours to be better drivers. I would argue I would expect owners/drivers of mini-vans filled with family and pets to be expected to perform to a higher standard but that's just asking for handcuffs and a bail hearing so I keep my mouth shut.

Enlist some attorney to help you fight the ticket, hopefully to get it dismissed.

Your take away is you drive a highly visible car and some LEO's will want to hold you to a higher standard so you have to be on your toes.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:25 PM
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Yeah if you pass a cop, he's going to pull you over, even if you're doing the speed limit or less. Don't pass cops. I've never gotten a speeding ticket, but every time I get pulled over it's because I either passed a cop or went by a stopped one without slowing down to the speed limit, which they consider a sign of respect.
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewinator View Post
Yeah if you pass a cop, he's going to pull you over, even if you're doing the speed limit or less. Don't pass cops. I've never gotten a speeding ticket, but every time I get pulled over it's because I either passed a cop or went by a stopped one without slowing down to the speed limit, which they consider a sign of respect.
I agree with this.
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewinator View Post
I either passed a cop or went by a stopped one without slowing down to the speed limit, which they consider a sign of respect.
I think (someone check) in most states, it's a state law requiring you to slow down and change lanes if possible. Not just being respectful.
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Old 07-30-2016, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewinator View Post
Yeah if you pass a cop, he's going to pull you over, even if you're doing the speed limit or less. Don't pass cops. I've never gotten a speeding ticket, but every time I get pulled over it's because I either passed a cop or went by a stopped one without slowing down to the speed limit, which they consider a sign of respect.
Not true at all out here in the Bay Area. I pass cops all the time and I've never had an issue. As long as you keep it within 10 over, they don't bat an eye. They have better things to do and they're far less concerned about people driving straight down the road than those driving aggressively.

OP, no way to comment on your situation without video. We've all seen impatient people weaving through traffic, tailgating anyone that won't immediately get out of their way. If that's what you were doing, you're likely gonna get a ticket if a cop sees you, regardless of what you're driving. If that wasn't what you were doing, then you have a reason to be angry. The real question is; what is your time worth to you. Personally, I'd just pay a service to take care of it. You're not going to make a point going to court, because if the cop shows, you're gonna lose. If he doesn't, the only point you've made is to the clerk.
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Old 07-30-2016, 06:20 PM
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In Florida if you give your ticket to one of those ticket clinics they will go to pre-trial and they will take the offer "no points, no driving school" if you have a clean record, but "withhold adjudication" is not the same as "dismissed", that's why I do not use an attorney. I rather go to trial and appear in front of the judge in order to state my case. Most of the times the officer is not there, but if he shows up he'll remember how did you treat him and he most likely don't remember and help you out unless you were speeding, being reckless or disrespectful. Unfortunately, this is the way the system works.

Again, I think this whole traffic court system is BS. I see cops braking the law left and right, just today I saw a Miami Beach Police do a right turn on red without even stopping. If I am going to be held up to higher standards because I drive a sports car they should start obeying the law and setting the example.

Regarding passing a cop, where in the traffic law says that you are not allow to pass a cop. Is this an excuse for the cop to pull you over and make up a BS reason to make a point?. If that's the case there is something really wrong with the system.
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Old 07-30-2016, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by trucheli View Post
The reason that they've stopped you in Germany was because you carry a Zoll plate (tourist plate) and they want to make sure that you are the owner of the vehicle.
+1
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by trucheli View Post
. I didn't argued and he wrote a ticket for "Following too close". To me this is total BS, what's considered following to close? How does the officer behind me can measure the distance and make a determination?

My humble opinion:

Hire representation. Be relentlessly courteous. Focus only on the actual violation as-written (following too closely). A decent attorney will be able to re-direct stray testimony from the citing officer away from any other alleged activity you were not cited for. As you have pointed out, even a dash cam will not provide depth of field. If dash cam footage is produced, your attorney will point out that every vehicle in the clip also appears to be following too closely- BECAUSE the camera is not a reliable source for judging following distance. Your attorney will also ask where the officer was positioned when he made the determination you were following too closely, as you alluded to in the OP. 'Ten car lengths back and directly behind' would create the opportunity to make the argument the officer simply got it wrong.

I suggest that your defense focus only on the fact the officer made a mistake. Keep conspiracy theories out, don't make it personal between you and the officer.He's not out to get you. He's not a bad cop. No one is singling you out or harassing you, it's an honest mistake by the officer.

I also suggest purging from your plan any comparative defense. When I hear "Everyone else is doing it" or "there are others doing far worse" I don't feel inclined to reject the citing officer's judgement. And I think that's exactly what you will be asking the judge to do. Best of luck!
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by trucheli View Post
In Florida if you give your ticket to one of those ticket clinics they will go to pre-trial and they will take the offer "no points, no driving school" if you have a clean record, but "withhold adjudication" is not the same as "dismissed", that's why I do not use an attorney. I rather go to trial and appear in front of the judge in order to state my case. Most of the times the officer is not there, but if he shows up he'll remember how did you treat him and he most likely don't remember and help you out unless you were speeding, being reckless or disrespectful. Unfortunately, this is the way the system works.

Again, I think this whole traffic court system is BS. I see cops braking the law left and right, just today I saw a Miami Beach Police do a right turn on red without even stopping. If I am going to be held up to higher standards because I drive a sports car they should start obeying the law and setting the example.

Regarding passing a cop, where in the traffic law says that you are not allow to pass a cop. Is this an excuse for the cop to pull you over and make up a BS reason to make a point?. If that's the case there is something really wrong with the system.
To the OP; Not to put too fine a point on it but what with what has been going on with police in the USA these days you are lucky you didn't get shot. As another posted, without a dashcam we can't really say what you were doing or not doing.

Here is what I would do in a situation like this. Enter a plea of not guilty and ask for the particulars of the offence. The state attorney's office (we call that person the Crown Attorney in Canada) will provide you with the notes the officer wrote at the time of the offence. Those notes usually include what the driver said and also the drivers attitude. This will be important for the judge in determining whether to give you a break or not. It also helps you when you talk to the states attorney.

After you read the notes try talking to the states attorney to see if you can talk him/her into not proceeding (based on something in the notes). They are usually extremely busy in court and if they don't have a clear winner they might drop it to reduce the length of the docket for the court day.

When you get pulled over its usually best to be polite to the officer and briefly explain that you felt you weren't committing an offence. A good attitude with the cop goes a long way in your favour when it comes to disposition by the states attorney and if it gets that far, the judge.

Finally, driving a Porsche, you are a more likely to be a target of police and sometimes other drivers. I agree it's not fair, but you could avoid it by driving extra conservatively or alternatively, drive a less "I'm rich"car.
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