New to all this and can't decide on a direction
06-16-2016, 07:04 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
I have homes in SoCal and Denver. You don't need a 4S in Denver. As you know we are getting less and less snow every winter. When we do get snow it melts the next day. Of course we do get snow dumps of 15 - 20 inches but you won't be taking any Porsche out in that weather. Put snow tires on a regular 911 and you won't have any problems.
06-16-2016, 09:30 PM
#17
It's all about the tires when it comes to driving in the snow. If you can find a 4 that fits your budget, then get it. If a 2 comes along with everything that you want, you won't go wrong with that.
06-16-2016, 09:50 PM
#19
Race Director
Hi,
As someone who's new to higher end cars and Porsche's in particular, thought I would throw this out to the knowledgeable folks here for opinions.
I would like to get a new (to me) car. And I've always wanted a sports car and gravitated first to a '15 Cayman GTS and more recently to the 991. My initial thought for the 991 was to go with a 2013 4S, but I've also been wondering if perhaps a 2012 S would work just as well given its my first foray into the Porsche world.
There are couple of considerations before deciding which model to go with.
As an aside, I'm always fascinated by the list of cars some of you have in your signatures. I've owned three cars in my life - '84 Corolla, '90's Saturn, and my current '02 Mazda Protege5. So as you can see, this is a material step up in quality
.
As someone who's new to higher end cars and Porsche's in particular, thought I would throw this out to the knowledgeable folks here for opinions.
I would like to get a new (to me) car. And I've always wanted a sports car and gravitated first to a '15 Cayman GTS and more recently to the 991. My initial thought for the 991 was to go with a 2013 4S, but I've also been wondering if perhaps a 2012 S would work just as well given its my first foray into the Porsche world.
There are couple of considerations before deciding which model to go with.
- It will be my daily driver. I will probably put 10-12k miles a year on it.
- I live in Denver, CO so weather is kind of an issue. I grew up in SoCal and hate driving in the snow, though its sometimes unavoidable. Our family has my wife's SUV for inclement weather and family stuff for what its worth.
- While I probably spend 99% of my time in the car solo, it would be helpful to be able to drive my kids around.
- I'm planning to keep my current car. Mostly because its worth basically nothing in trade and I'd like something I can use to schlep my bikes around. Or in the event of weather, have the option.
As an aside, I'm always fascinated by the list of cars some of you have in your signatures. I've owned three cars in my life - '84 Corolla, '90's Saturn, and my current '02 Mazda Protege5. So as you can see, this is a material step up in quality
.RWD or AWD it still comes down the tires. Many vehicles get around just fine in the snow/marginal traction conditions with just 2WD (either FWD or RWD). It ain't the going that is the problem, it is the turning and stopping. In this regard all vehicles are the same: Just 4 tires in contact with the pavement. It is the tires. (And in some cases chains...)
You are in Denver. I'd suggest you consider a Turbo model. Turbos work nice (better then N/A cars) at higher elevations. My 996 Turbo pulled like a freight train even at over 8K feet in Wyoming. I've never been through Denver with my 996 Turbo but I drove across I-70 through Colorado in my VW Golf TDi with its 90hp diesel engine (but turbo-charged!) and it was a "beast" at the higher elevations thanks to its turbo.
If I lived at higher elevations I'd seriously consider a turbo-charged vehicle.
06-17-2016, 02:26 AM
#20
Bottom line
You cannot go wrong with either of those cars, when compared to your current stable, the enjoyment will be vastly different. I started with a 996 C2 cab and loved every moment. Since I also live in Denver, I always wanted to drive it in winter also. The base 911 is exceptional, then it just keeps stepping up from there!
I now have a 13 C4S and just purchased a winter wheel set and will drive it like they do in Europe, all the time!
Good luck and post up!
I now have a 13 C4S and just purchased a winter wheel set and will drive it like they do in Europe, all the time!
Good luck and post up!
06-18-2016, 03:45 PM
#21
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have homes in SoCal and Denver. You don't need a 4S in Denver. As you know we are getting less and less snow every winter. When we do get snow it melts the next day. Of course we do get snow dumps of 15 - 20 inches but you won't be taking any Porsche out in that weather. Put snow tires on a regular 911 and you won't have any problems.
06-18-2016, 04:35 PM
#22
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You must get a lot more rain than snow, power to the front when slippery wet is a consideration. What ever you do, get PSE, the sound is a joy. If you get it, you will never drive in the quite mode. PDK, you will be using the paddle to down shift even if you are in the auto shift mode just because it works so well and you can't resist.
06-21-2016, 12:50 PM
#23
Just have to second the love for the Mazda Protege5. I bought mine new. It was the second car I'd ever bought, and the first new car I've ever bought. 14 years and 112k miles, still running like a champ. I have a great, very reasonably priced dealership for service and the guys there love the thing. They gush over it each time I bring it it. Every year (or 6 months, or 3 months) I think about replacing it, but it's cheap, paid for, fun to drive, and works fine for my family. At this point, I'm planning on having it as a 20-year car.
The rest of the fleet: 1998 Chevy S-10 (bought 8 years ago, approaching the 20-year mark and needs replacing) and a 1995 Carerra4. My daughter loves riding in the back. Maybe someday I'll add a 991 to the fleet.
Best of luck with your search, drive lots of different cars and buy the one you love the most.
The rest of the fleet: 1998 Chevy S-10 (bought 8 years ago, approaching the 20-year mark and needs replacing) and a 1995 Carerra4. My daughter loves riding in the back. Maybe someday I'll add a 991 to the fleet.
Best of luck with your search, drive lots of different cars and buy the one you love the most.
06-21-2016, 03:16 PM
#24
The Protege5 is running strong 14 years and 132k miles with no issues outside of regular service and a self inflicted wound from sliding into a curb after hitting some ice.Quick etiquette question - I happen to be in NY today and was walking back to the hotel after lunch and saw that Manhattan Motorcars was a block away. As a Porsche dealer I figured I'd take a walk by. My question is, given I have no intention on buying there at the moment, is being a lookie loo frowned upon?
06-22-2016, 11:41 AM
#25
Originally Posted by thenewguy11
The Protege5 is running strong 14 years and 132k miles with no issues outside of regular service and a self inflicted wound from sliding into a curb after hitting some ice.Quick etiquette question - I happen to be in NY today and was walking back to the hotel after lunch and saw that Manhattan Motorcars was a block away. As a Porsche dealer I figured I'd take a walk by. My question is, given I have no intention on buying there at the moment, is being a lookie loo frowned upon?
In regards to driving in snow or below 45 degrees. The RWD is adequate with tires such as Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 as the engine sits right above the drive wheels. I drove about 7K miles in a C2S through the winter in the NE without issue. Disclaimer: never drove AWD 911.
Hope this helps.
06-22-2016, 11:42 AM
#26
I would stop in at any and all dealerships that you care to. You're not a lookie-loo, you're planning on buying a car. You're in the market. Let them earn your business.
06-22-2016, 03:27 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I DD'd a Honda S2000 through the snow for quite a few years here in Utah. I really enjoyed it.
Tires mean more than 2WD/4WD, and the 911 will be better than any front engine RWD car as the engine weight is right on the driven wheels. My S2000 on whatever the then-current Blizzaks was a fair bit better in the snow than our 4WD Honda Element that was on the OEM all season tires. Slightly narrower than OEM tire sizes often offer an improvement in snow traction.
I haven't taken my 997 GTS out in the winter here as I don't have appropriate tires for it, but I've ordered a 991.2 C2S that I expect to buy snow tires for and drive year round. I'll take the SUV on bad days.
I didn't really consider a 4S simply because I like RWD quite well and thought that if I liked 4WD I'd want to spend a lot more for a new Turbo / Turbo S.
Turbochargers will typically compensate for altitude using additional boost, so they really make a lot of difference once you get up high. You get sea level power but also the reduced aerodynamic drag. I'm only at 4500 ft altitude, and here the base 991.2 C2 felt at least as quick as my 997 GTS. The torque is also nice if the car is used for commuting.
Tires mean more than 2WD/4WD, and the 911 will be better than any front engine RWD car as the engine weight is right on the driven wheels. My S2000 on whatever the then-current Blizzaks was a fair bit better in the snow than our 4WD Honda Element that was on the OEM all season tires. Slightly narrower than OEM tire sizes often offer an improvement in snow traction.
I haven't taken my 997 GTS out in the winter here as I don't have appropriate tires for it, but I've ordered a 991.2 C2S that I expect to buy snow tires for and drive year round. I'll take the SUV on bad days.
I didn't really consider a 4S simply because I like RWD quite well and thought that if I liked 4WD I'd want to spend a lot more for a new Turbo / Turbo S.
Turbochargers will typically compensate for altitude using additional boost, so they really make a lot of difference once you get up high. You get sea level power but also the reduced aerodynamic drag. I'm only at 4500 ft altitude, and here the base 991.2 C2 felt at least as quick as my 997 GTS. The torque is also nice if the car is used for commuting.
06-22-2016, 05:41 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
I've driven 911s for more than 15 years, and have always put my cars in storage thru the long Boston winters. But at the end of last winter, I bought a set of pre-owned wheels and winter tires and have decided that the car's just too much fun to leave covered up for five months every year. Mine is a C2 GTS Cab. I'll drive it everyday that I can in the winter, but I won't take it out if there's even a hint of snow (there's just no reason to take the chance). I've got an Audi quattro that can handle that stuff. So I agree with the others. Good winter tires are a must once the temps go below 40. After that, use the Mazda on the messy days and enjoy the 911 when the roads are clear - and let's face it, that's most winter days, even in Denver or Boston.
06-22-2016, 06:06 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I wouldn't say I'm planning to drive in snowy conditions. Given the choice, I'd just as soon either take my wife's SUV or stay home. But its possible to get caught out. I guess my primary question is can I get 90% of the way there with the 2S and save the premium? Or am I going to regret not going with the 4S? All subjective, I'm sure but would like to here from those who've had both. And better yet, those who live and drive their cars in places with similar weather. Thanks.