991.2 4s how does the AWD work?
03-18-2016, 11:01 PM
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991.2 4s how does the AWD work?
Hello guys,
I'm ordered my 991.2 4s couple weeks ago and I can't help to learn more about this amazing machine. I am a EVO and STI owner, and both of the companies are fairly transparent on how their AWD system works. However, I can't seem to find any technical details about the Porsche AWD systems.
I asked the sales if the 4s is full time awd or it only kicks in when it detects something like the BMW. Could anyone point me to the right direction to find the information about the Porsche AWD systems?
Also I don't like new back lid(the bbq grille) they have on the 991.2. Did they change for the heat exchange due to the new turbo setup or I can change that lid w/o causing any mechanical problems?
Thanks in advance!
I'm ordered my 991.2 4s couple weeks ago and I can't help to learn more about this amazing machine. I am a EVO and STI owner, and both of the companies are fairly transparent on how their AWD system works. However, I can't seem to find any technical details about the Porsche AWD systems.
I asked the sales if the 4s is full time awd or it only kicks in when it detects something like the BMW. Could anyone point me to the right direction to find the information about the Porsche AWD systems?
Also I don't like new back lid(the bbq grille) they have on the 991.2. Did they change for the heat exchange due to the new turbo setup or I can change that lid w/o causing any mechanical problems?
Thanks in advance!
03-18-2016, 11:24 PM
#2
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magic.
There is a screen in the MFD that shows where the power is going and most of the time it's like 90/10.
Punch the go pedal and it jumps to the front a bit until you get up and going then it returns to 90/10.
03-18-2016, 11:30 PM
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03-18-2016, 11:37 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply!
I don't know how I missed this video when I was searching.
It still sounds like a black box AWD to me. However, if it's around 10/90, at least is a full time AWD. The test drive car was a 991.1 S, but I felt plenty of grip with the snow tires on snow. The sales told me I won't feel the difference on the drive pavement between the S and the 4S. Based on my experience, that's is not true when I was driving the EVO and the e92 m3 back to back in terms of AWD and RWD. Since the 911 has a different engine layout, I'm not so sure if my experience is sufficient enough to comment on the sales's claim about the 911s.
Is here any official number about the front/rear split threshold?
I don't know how I missed this video when I was searching.
It still sounds like a black box AWD to me. However, if it's around 10/90, at least is a full time AWD. The test drive car was a 991.1 S, but I felt plenty of grip with the snow tires on snow. The sales told me I won't feel the difference on the drive pavement between the S and the 4S. Based on my experience, that's is not true when I was driving the EVO and the e92 m3 back to back in terms of AWD and RWD. Since the 911 has a different engine layout, I'm not so sure if my experience is sufficient enough to comment on the sales's claim about the 911s.
Is here any official number about the front/rear split threshold?
03-18-2016, 11:39 PM
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03-18-2016, 11:44 PM
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I love watching C4/C4S winter videos with all 4 wheels spinning and the car just go go going.
I do know it's very capable on mountain roads all grip and go.
If you do find any technical stuff please post up.
I do know it's very capable on mountain roads all grip and go.
If you do find any technical stuff please post up.
03-18-2016, 11:50 PM
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Yea, I found they have a lot of winter experience programs on youtube and they seem to do very well. As a tech savvy guy, I wanna know the nitty-gritty that I pay for haha
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03-19-2016, 08:02 AM
#8
I also have a 991.2 C4S on order.
I'm an Engineer and I can tell you that you will not find any Porsche Engineering Specifications on the AWD or anything else for that matter.
We have Volvo XC70's that use Haldex systems but I would think that the Porsche AWD is proprietary.
When my car comes, I will try to figure out how it operates and then experiment on snow and ice in suitable environments.
The Volvo has 'Traction Control' that brakes a spinning wheel but you need to turn that OFF in deep snow to allow spinning for traction.
It will be interesting to find out how the Porsche does in snow.
From the ground clearance, I don;t expect to operate in more than 4" of snow. So it may not be an issue.-Richard
I'm an Engineer and I can tell you that you will not find any Porsche Engineering Specifications on the AWD or anything else for that matter.
We have Volvo XC70's that use Haldex systems but I would think that the Porsche AWD is proprietary.
When my car comes, I will try to figure out how it operates and then experiment on snow and ice in suitable environments.
The Volvo has 'Traction Control' that brakes a spinning wheel but you need to turn that OFF in deep snow to allow spinning for traction.
It will be interesting to find out how the Porsche does in snow.
From the ground clearance, I don;t expect to operate in more than 4" of snow. So it may not be an issue.-Richard
03-19-2016, 01:52 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
What I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that the Porsche AWD system, like Lambo and other "supercars" is a performance AWD setup, and not all-terrain. Meaning, it is not targeted at the most traction in snow, mud, or other extremes. Rather, as they state many many times in their literature / videos the 991 AWD setup is targeted at performance "confidence" and agility in CHANGING road conditions where the road condition doesn't immediately upset the handling dynamics of the car. What Porsche does in their winter schools, and even in the performance schools in the dry, is demonstrate the capabilities of the car in performance terms -- not "here's how you don't get stuck in a mud bog", "drive through 12" of standing water" or "take the kids to school in a blizzard". Leave that to cars with systems dedicated to those purposes, with the clearance and weight characteristics you would expect for "any" terrain. The Porsche Winter schools typically have their 4s setup with full winter tires, and even studded rubber! Aren't those illegal in most states in the US?
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
03-19-2016, 02:21 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
What I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that the Porsche AWD system, like Lambo and other "supercars" is a performance AWD setup, and not all-terrain. Meaning, it is not targeted at the most traction in snow, mud, or other extremes. Rather, as they state many many times in their literature / videos the 991 AWD setup is targeted at performance "confidence" and agility in CHANGING road conditions where the road condition doesn't immediately upset the handling dynamics of the car. What Porsche does in their winter schools, and even in the performance schools in the dry, is demonstrate the capabilities of the car in performance terms -- not "here's how you don't get stuck in a mud bog", "drive through 12" of standing water" or "take the kids to school in a blizzard". Leave that to cars with systems dedicated to those purposes, with the clearance and weight characteristics you would expect for "any" terrain. The Porsche Winter schools typically have their 4s setup with full winter tires, and even studded rubber! Aren't those illegal in most states in the US?
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
03-19-2016, 04:24 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
To answer your question on the motor cover grill. It cannot be changed because it is functional. It is the air intake for the engine and is vented on both sides of the rear bumper. You will notice a small vent at the extreme edge of the bumper. I have seen the grill and it looks good, sort of a retro look.
03-19-2016, 07:05 PM
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To answer your question on the motor cover grill. It cannot be changed because it is functional. It is the air intake for the engine and is vented on both sides of the rear bumper. You will notice a small vent at the extreme edge of the bumper. I have seen the grill and it looks good, sort of a retro look.
03-19-2016, 07:11 PM
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What I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that the Porsche AWD system, like Lambo and other "supercars" is a performance AWD setup, and not all-terrain. Meaning, it is not targeted at the most traction in snow, mud, or other extremes. Rather, as they state many many times in their literature / videos the 991 AWD setup is targeted at performance "confidence" and agility in CHANGING road conditions where the road condition doesn't immediately upset the handling dynamics of the car. What Porsche does in their winter schools, and even in the performance schools in the dry, is demonstrate the capabilities of the car in performance terms -- not "here's how you don't get stuck in a mud bog", "drive through 12" of standing water" or "take the kids to school in a blizzard". Leave that to cars with systems dedicated to those purposes, with the clearance and weight characteristics you would expect for "any" terrain. The Porsche Winter schools typically have their 4s setup with full winter tires, and even studded rubber! Aren't those illegal in most states in the US?
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
What the luxury car makers realized with the nearly all RWD platforms some years ago is that the FWD cars in particular, and SUVs, were providing purchase options that gave drivers the confidence to drive in most weather conditions (debatable whether this is true) -- so they needed to come out with something to compete (esp in the regions with changing weather extremes...) and hence suddenly you see BMW, MB, other makes offering AWD. And although the sales reps for these makes, and even Porsche, love to tout how great their cars are in the snow and ice, they really are just playing to the buyers fears and confidence to upsell.... For example, why is it that when you buy a C4/4S they don't come with Winter Tires, or at least All Season setups? Seems ridiculous to me if what I want AWD for is to drive in snow and ice (which I don't, so don't attack me on that!). Try to take your C4S with summer rubber out in the snow, or on ice.... risky. But put full winter tread on your C2/2S and I bet you could challenge or out-perform a 4/4S on summer rubber in snow. As an example, and those who have had RWD cars on winter tread can attest to : I've experienced a RWD BMW 540i with tons of torque out handle a wonderful Audi Quattro in snow on a hill just because the 540 had snow tires, and the Audi still had it's performance tires on and was sliding sideways going up the hill, despite the AWD trying to apply traction to the frozen surface.
So my point is that although AWD is a definite advantage in some conditions and even on the track where having 4-points of traction and excellent power/weight distribution can even be an advantage, comparing to platforms dedicated to and developed for the extremes (such as Subaru) is only seeing part of the story.
I am sure there will be some that disagree with me... LOL
And yes, tires make a day and night difference. I have winter tires on all my cars since the place i live have more than 7 months of snow every year. It's nothing crazy like Alaska, but still pretty bad.
03-19-2016, 07:23 PM
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I also have a 991.2 C4S on order.
I'm an Engineer and I can tell you that you will not find any Porsche Engineering Specifications on the AWD or anything else for that matter.
We have Volvo XC70's that use Haldex systems but I would think that the Porsche AWD is proprietary.
When my car comes, I will try to figure out how it operates and then experiment on snow and ice in suitable environments.
The Volvo has 'Traction Control' that brakes a spinning wheel but you need to turn that OFF in deep snow to allow spinning for traction.
It will be interesting to find out how the Porsche does in snow.
From the ground clearance, I don;t expect to operate in more than 4" of snow. So it may not be an issue.-Richard
I'm an Engineer and I can tell you that you will not find any Porsche Engineering Specifications on the AWD or anything else for that matter.
We have Volvo XC70's that use Haldex systems but I would think that the Porsche AWD is proprietary.
When my car comes, I will try to figure out how it operates and then experiment on snow and ice in suitable environments.
The Volvo has 'Traction Control' that brakes a spinning wheel but you need to turn that OFF in deep snow to allow spinning for traction.
It will be interesting to find out how the Porsche does in snow.
From the ground clearance, I don;t expect to operate in more than 4" of snow. So it may not be an issue.-Richard
03-19-2016, 10:08 PM
#15
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The problem i have with kick-in type of AWD is that the car movement is unpredictable. It's almost like a gun with random recoil pattern and it will bite you any time when things are going hot. I did some back to back runs with my STI and a 335xi on a local rally cross. The STI is very predictable even with a lot of surface changes. However, the 335xi was really unpredictable and I almost crashed the car on a practice run. I'm not a very skilled driver or professional driver, but you don't have to be a racing driver to feel the differences between AWD systems.