Originally Posted by Archimedes

Yup, the B5 S4 time bombs. I cringe every time I see someone trying to sell an old one of those on Crackhead's List. Feel bad knowing some young kid who doesn't know any better is going to wind up buying it.

Originally Posted by Archimedes

I think they're gonna sell well, because I think they're going to be decent performers and will attract some new buyers into the fold to replace some purists who don't care for the new cars. They're a step closer to the mainstream with this car and that will help it be successful.

Originally Posted by MKW

Audi dropped factory turbocharged S4s 10-15 yrs ago and switched to a hard to modify 4.2l NA V8s because resale values had tanked and many auction companies wouldn't touch them ( so dealers couldnt get rid of them) because something like 70 % of them had been " chipped " and then " dechipped " by the second or third owner . Buyers for used car lots at auctions didnt know which ones were potential " live granades " and starting avoiding all B5 S4s , which hurt their resale and therefore hurt potential sales of new ones in showrooms , esp with regard to lease residuals vs the BMW 3 series .

They are back to turbos now on the S4 but now have better ways to check for mods and the market has changed as the car has a much different type buyer these days anyway at its current 70K price point. The Toyoburu twins are today what the Audi B5 S4 was 20 years ago from a tuner stand point . Audi sales execs are thankful for that, I'm sure .

That is why some companies now have so many embedded scattered software " tell tales " to detect via the OBD II port which cars ( esp turbo ones ) have had their ECUs currently or previously modded when brought in for warranty engine/drivetrain maladies .

So it isnt just potential OEM warranty repair costs but also resale reputation ..this is the first time in its 50 yr hx the base 911 has the potential with a " cheap software tune only " to crank out more straight road acceleration than a factory S or Powerkitted S / GTS model esp among owners who could care less of the longer term premature wear from lack of associated bulked up thermal mgmt .....they figure that is a problem to kick down the road to the next owner!

makes buying a used base/ S 991.2 later a bit dicey if you ask me ...esp if aftermarket tuners come out with claimed " untraceable " removable software with claimed 70+ hp bumps over stock, even 100+ hp more for the 20 second overboost button !

Originally Posted by STG991

I agree. I think they realize they need to broaden the appeal of the car, the only challenge is the price. These cars aren't cheap, which defaults a lot of people back to Mercedes and BMW.

I just wonder whether the next generation of owners will be as loyal as some of the current long time enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by Fishey

Audi resale value has very little to do with "Turbo" and much more to do with the fact that they are the worst built cars ever. (B5/B6/B7) they can all go up in a dumpster fire. Quite literally the worst engineered cars of all times

Originally Posted by STG991

I agree. I think they realize they need to broaden the appeal of the car, the only challenge is the price. These cars aren't cheap, which defaults a lot of people back to Mercedes and BMW.

I just wonder whether the next generation of owners will be as loyal as some of the current long time enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by Fishey

Audi resale value has very little to do with "Turbo" and much more to do with the fact that they are the worst built cars ever. (B5/B6/B7) they can all go up in a dumpster fire. Quite literally the worst engineered cars of all times followed by the 928 and E90 BMW.

Originally Posted by Archimedes

Totally disagree. The **** show that was the B5 had everything to do with the turbos, specifically the mods people did that caused them to detonate. The B6 S4 was a huge step forward and a much better car in every way. I put 70,000 trouble free miles on mine and loved it. I wouldn't touch a B5 S4 with a 10 foot pole, but I'd buy a low mileage B6 in a heartbeat. Problem is you can't find them, as most people drove the heck out of them.

Originally Posted by Arcoril

Anecdotally, a friend of mine bought a brand new B8 A4 2.0T back in 2009 and it burned oil like crazy to the tune of about 1 quart every 850 miles or so. And to make things worse, Audi insisted that this was completely normal and refused to do anything about it. The oil burning was so bad that the cats got completely fouled and ended up needing to be replaced at 30k miles after throwing all sorts of codes.

It left such a bad taste in his mouth that he ditched the car as soon as he could and vowed to never get another Audi. The oil burning wasn't an isolated incident, either. Audi ended up settling on a class action suit on the 2.0T oil burning issue but only after a long, drawn-out fight.

Originally Posted by Fishey

The whole DMCA thing is an absolute joke.

I think if we get to the point that you can't change the software because its somehow "Copyright" its all over with repercussions far more vast then the automotive industry.

Originally Posted by drcollie

Chip away! Just be sure you are OK with kissing your engine and drivetrain warranty goodbye on a new $ 100K car. And save some money for blown head gaskets, melted pistons, burnt valves, bricked ECU's, etc. Hey, its not cheap or easy being on the cutting edge and an early adopter...ya know?

Originally Posted by 008

I've liked some turbo cars I've had notably a 95 supra in high school that was modded to about 500hp, but generally prefer NA characteristics. I was somewhat optimistic about the new car but after driving the T6 Cayenne S loaner I was given, I've lost all hope of a decent outcome. What a POS; turbo lag, lazy throttle, top end anemia, etc. but I guess you can now part share with your 911, and macan wagon should a road warrior future descend upon us.