Turn 7, the toe. I love that track.

 

I have been an HPDE Instructor since 1996, so that's a pretty long time. I have more or less 'retired' from Instructing however, and my last DE event I did was with Aston Martin Owner's Club in November 2013.

Like anything in life, the more you do it the more wisdom you gain and the more you see, its called 'experience'. And the cars get faster and faster with more driver's aids in them such as ABS / traction control / Dynamic skid control, etc. The end result is you can get a modern car going REALLY fast with very little skill and when a student gets into trouble to the point where the vehicle is truly out of control there can be a hellva lot of speed with a big crash at the end. When you see enough of these off-track events you begin to realize that as an Instructor you are really just along for the ride in a street car. There is no cage, no racing shell seat, and no harness. Just 3 point belts and some airbags.

A street car is not designed to crash at 100 mph or more and be survivable. For that you need a cage, a solid seat and 6 points. Back when I first started instructing the cars were 165 hp BMW 3 series and Miatas. Now everyone brings 400 HP Porsches and Mustangs to the track, they are a LOT faster.

Students get the red mist. It's easy to do. Many feel they are at the track and want to gain on the student in front of them and make the pass, and that's really racing just with a point by. And you know what? It's a lotta fun...I get that. But I don't really want to be in the right seat with no controls for that session.

Many years ago at Summit Point in WV, I had a student that was DETERMINED to make a late pass between T2 and T3 in his BMW, he'd been sparring for three laps with another car. I know Summit Point well and yelled to him to back off "! YOU CAN"T MAKE THAT CORNER ! BACK OFF!! ", but he refused to do so and went inside the other car way too hot, and he went off the track at speed. Rather than mash the brakes he tried to go back on the blacktop while I'm yelling "TWO FEET IN! BRAKE! BRAKE!" and he didn't listen there, either. He got back to the blacktop sideways, which shot us across and into the tree line adjacent to the Jefferson circuit and we spun, impacting on my side of the car into the tree line. I had 4 broken ribs afterwards (quite painful I might add) and his car was totalled and had to be pulled out of the trees with not one, but two cables on the wreckers.

You know, the small time NASCAR guys look at these DE schools and will say "You guys are insane to take unibody street cars out there and run them like that. They fold up like butter and are real expensive to repair." We Porsche guys tend to look down on them in their beater Chevy's and Fords, but underneath that wrinkled sheet metal is a full tube frame with full safety gear. When they crash, they just cut off the part of the wrecked tubing, weld on a new section and re-skin the body...its just a few hours work.

Every year there are a couple people killed at DE events, just students going out for some fun. Instructors get killed, too. Now, there was a comment here that you can get eaten by a shark, etc...yeah, I get that. But as students what you guys have to really keep in mind is that YOU are in control of the Instructor's life. He has no over-ride controls, he's there to assist you. While you may be willing to take chances in the quest for fun, maybe he doesn't feel the same way. I guarantee you that when your Instructor left for the track that morning he/she plans to return home for dinner that night - so just make sure you stay within your limits at DE events and that they get home OK. If you really want to race, buy a race car and get the gear. You'll be safer and have more fun as well.

Duane

 

Nicely said.

 

Want to, will do DE once in my car. Don't feel the need to compete. I've a already done the Porsche Preccision Driving Course, will do that again, and will do the High Performance Course at least once before doing DE in mine. Baby steps.

 

I think like anything else, it's about the person. Try to talk to the person before going out as an instructor. If they don't seem respectful, calm and willing to listen don't go! At least then you have some control knowing he will obey if you are uncomfortable or want out, opposed to the gentleman a story above. Maybe that's just a small part but better to know that small bit

 

Very well said!

 

Here's a read from Road & Track after an Instructor was killed in a DE car last year at Summit Point. I don't disagree at all with that the author writes. In fact, when I first started Instructing in 1996 I had zero training in the right seat. I was just a fast A-Group tier student who didn't crash so they asked me to do it.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...y-instruction/

 

nice

 

Duane: Well said. And there are a lot of trees around SP to hit!
My instructing has always been at SCCA schools where we never ride in student cars! We just want to teach you not to hurt us!

 

While I agree, with the good Dr., you're always responsible for you. That's the reason, I rarely, if ever instruct anymore. I've been instructing and racing since 1994 and have seen people injured (and a few even killed) in seemingly every possible car and configuration, Miatas with 100hp, 1,000 hp Supras, purpose built racecars, bone stock street cars, paid shoes and first timers.

I'm usually not comfortable with most people's decision making generally, add 100 mph, other drivers and me with a floor board where the brake pedal should be and I don't see a compelling reason to put myself there.

Ps. As I spend my free time either in the woods, on a race track, or in the ocean, my comment about sharks had more to do with the PC marketing world of the Internet and the discovery channel's misguided understanding and preaching about human/predator interaction than the relative safety of DEs. The truth is never as comforting as the shallow platitudes would have us believe, spearfishing at Guadulupe or a DE, I'll take the drive; right seat with a newb in an auto Z06....Toss up.

 

I took my car on the track for the 1st time a little while ago and was shocked at how much it was like the wild west. My only track experience had been a few laps in the exotic driving experience. In those there were only 1 or 2 other cars on the track. In my HPDE beginner group I went out there with a line of cars a few feet in front and behind, which terrified me. Plus my instructor said he forgot his mic so he'd have to use hand gestures. There was also no check of my car at all and I was told I was on my own to figure out tire pressure.

What I learned from online and my previous experience was to look ahead, but my instructor would scream and point to the areas I passed telling me I should have done this or that differently. Of course trying to look back while watching the car in front and behind was nearly impossible, so it was tough to get anything out of the instructions. When the session was over I thought he'd sit down and explain how I could improve, but instead he just walked away and said he'd meet me there for the next session.

Towards the end of I was getting exhausted and didn't learn much and then he shocked me by saying he needed to practice for his race, so he wanted me to go on my own. I told him I paid for an instructor and didn't think it was safe for me or others to do that, so he got another instructor for my last lap. He was much better and I wish I had a decent instructor from the beginning.

Maybe for people that track their cars every weekend things like speeding up to over a blind turn at high speeds with cars a few feet in front and behind is 2nd nature, but for 1st timers it's a little counter intuitive. Why in the world don't they put beginners on a track that isn't crowded and provide them clear instructions and basic principals on the track and feedback right after each session? It just seems like putting people with no experience in high performance cars that haven't been checked and stacking them like sardines for their 1st time is asking for trouble. I also wonder what qualifies someone to be an instructor since my instructor seemed much more interested in practicing for his race than in actually instructing.

 

I've done 50+ track days on bikes, but none yet in cars. Cars just never gave me the thrill of a bike, but now I have no choice so cars it is. My plan is to do my first few days at tracks where I already know the line, passing zones, etc. and keep my pace to 6/10ths of what I even think is remotely safe. That way I can focus on learning how to drive the car rather than having to learn the track as well. As far as instructor safety goes, unless you get in with a total knucklehead who just doesn't listen and drives way over their head right off the bat, it seems like it's incumbent on the instructor to control the situation and ensure the driver is maintaining a proper margin of safety or get them off the track. That said, I think it's crazy to get in a car with a driver that you have no experience with and let them do anything much more than a parade lap at first.

 

well said Dr Collie. I have only been instructing for about 3 years, but I think I did my last instructing today at NCM. I've been contemplating it for about a year now. While I really do love instructing and passing on the passion to others, but I'm finding as cars get more and more powerful, I'm just not real comfortable coaching from the right seat. My student today was really slow in an old 350z, as he had never been on the track and bought the car 2 weeks earlier, so he was my favorite type of student, as he listened well and didn't push it too hard. But, I've also had those types that just want to go fast, and I think its not worth it to me to continue instructing strangers.

 

Don't blame you, it seems like most of the fatalities that occur with DE for the past few years involve instructors. I have been asked by a few clubs to become an instructor, but I always refuse them, even with the promises of heavily discounted or free track times... There is just no way I am putting my own life in the hands of a completely stranger and a car of unknown history.

Instructing from the passenger seat should really be replaced with modern data acquisition and video logs instead, as it is safer and more much effective than in-car coaching.

 

Instructing can be a lot of fun, especially with the new guys who want to learn and leave their ego checked at the front gate. They don't want to trash their car and truly are there to get a driving education. That's the kind of student I like. I can teach them something and if receptive, they learn quick.

The hard case and the most dangerous student is the fast B Group Intermediate who is things he should be in the solo A Group. He's got 90% of the talent but attitude is all wrong. They generally won't listen to anything and are only focused on passing the next car in front of them any way they can get around them. They are fast enough to do serious speed but unskilled as what to do when the car is on the edge of control or drops two wheels off. That's the car I don't want to be in, and I excuse myself from riding further with them and tell them why.

The last 4 years I only instruct with the Aston Martin Club. You couldn't pay me to do a NASA school or Mustang/Corvette/Subaru Sti club. The Aston Club rolls out a big RV for the event, and its fully catered with lots of food. The Aston owners are not hard-core sports guys, and drive reserved. Not a single car has been torn up that I know of. At 1 p.m, the wine and cheese comes out and the driving is mostly done, a few cars go out but everyone is in kick-back mode. By 3 p.m. there are crickets chirping on the track and Instructors can have all the free time they want. THOSE are good track days...

I propose purchasing drone software from Boeing or Lockheed Martin, and then hooking it up to the students car. Then I can drive the car for the student around the track from the comfort of the track tower for a few laps and say over the radio "There, now go do that".... LOL