What a revelation...
11-28-2014, 12:15 AM
#31
11-28-2014, 01:23 AM
#34
Drifting
This is a 991 forum, so most of you 991 owners will obviously be biased because you spent lot of $$$ on your cars. I get that.
But it seems that most of the automobile test reviewers/racers who know how to drive well often say that the Cayman is better balanced and handles better than a 911.
Sure, the 911 has it's history and may have higher resale values, but when we are talking about the cars handling, balance and feel on the street and especially on the racetrack the Cayman is the superior car.
Why can't you 911 owners just accept that fact and move on.
But it seems that most of the automobile test reviewers/racers who know how to drive well often say that the Cayman is better balanced and handles better than a 911.
Sure, the 911 has it's history and may have higher resale values, but when we are talking about the cars handling, balance and feel on the street and especially on the racetrack the Cayman is the superior car.
Why can't you 911 owners just accept that fact and move on.
Me thinks its time for you to make a decision and move along... vs borderline trolling like your post above.
11-28-2014, 02:20 AM
#35
Just get a Cayman and shuddup 
Seriously, I drive a mid engine (boxster) too and was always envy (in a good way) when I see a 911.
So, I now got 991 and am cinderellaly happy ever after. Looking at turbo to fulfill my ego in the next couple of years
Seriously, I drive a mid engine (boxster) too and was always envy (in a good way) when I see a 911.
So, I now got 991 and am cinderellaly happy ever after. Looking at turbo to fulfill my ego in the next couple of years
11-28-2014, 03:20 AM
#37
Race Director
11-28-2014, 10:47 AM
#38
Drifting
Disclaimer; I was fully on board with OP's first post, but now we finally entered Thunder-dome, it normally takes us a couple of pages to get us going..
First off, I disagree that the new Cayman S is better than the previous generation Cayman R - it simply isn't... relevant in one of my upcoming points.
If you want to convince yourself that the Cayman is better because of the mid-engine layout and handling you should also ask yourself what you are planning to do with it. Again, I don't think anybody here will cry in their beer if anybody says the Cayman is better in any aspect. 911 drivers don't give two ****s about that.
If you are planning on tracking the crap out of the Cayman I think the choice of getting one is awesome, because it is incredible on the track, although you'll dread long straights a bit. But if you are buying it and just tool around town and some backroads like the vast majority of Porsche owners the mid-engine layout benefit hardly matters. Yes, it will be wonderful to drive in the twisties, but so is the 911 obviously, so unless you plan on driving it 10/10, the argument of the better handling car is a moot point.
First off, I disagree that the new Cayman S is better than the previous generation Cayman R - it simply isn't... relevant in one of my upcoming points.
If you want to convince yourself that the Cayman is better because of the mid-engine layout and handling you should also ask yourself what you are planning to do with it. Again, I don't think anybody here will cry in their beer if anybody says the Cayman is better in any aspect. 911 drivers don't give two ****s about that.
If you are planning on tracking the crap out of the Cayman I think the choice of getting one is awesome, because it is incredible on the track, although you'll dread long straights a bit. But if you are buying it and just tool around town and some backroads like the vast majority of Porsche owners the mid-engine layout benefit hardly matters. Yes, it will be wonderful to drive in the twisties, but so is the 911 obviously, so unless you plan on driving it 10/10, the argument of the better handling car is a moot point.
11-29-2014, 02:56 AM
#39
Disclaimer; I was fully on board with OP's first post, but now we finally entered Thunder-dome, it normally takes us a couple of pages to get us going..
First off, I disagree that the new Cayman S is better than the previous generation Cayman R - it simply isn't... relevant in one of my upcoming points.
If you want to convince yourself that the Cayman is better because of the mid-engine layout and handling you should also ask yourself what you are planning to do with it. Again, I don't think anybody here will cry in their beer if anybody says the Cayman is better in any aspect. 911 drivers don't give two ****s about that.
If you are planning on tracking the crap out of the Cayman I think the choice of getting one is awesome, because it is incredible on the track, although you'll dread long straights a bit. But if you are buying it and just tool around town and some backroads like the vast majority of Porsche owners the mid-engine layout benefit hardly matters. Yes, it will be wonderful to drive in the twisties, but so is the 911 obviously, so unless you plan on driving it 10/10, the argument of the better handling car is a moot point.
First off, I disagree that the new Cayman S is better than the previous generation Cayman R - it simply isn't... relevant in one of my upcoming points.
If you want to convince yourself that the Cayman is better because of the mid-engine layout and handling you should also ask yourself what you are planning to do with it. Again, I don't think anybody here will cry in their beer if anybody says the Cayman is better in any aspect. 911 drivers don't give two ****s about that.
If you are planning on tracking the crap out of the Cayman I think the choice of getting one is awesome, because it is incredible on the track, although you'll dread long straights a bit. But if you are buying it and just tool around town and some backroads like the vast majority of Porsche owners the mid-engine layout benefit hardly matters. Yes, it will be wonderful to drive in the twisties, but so is the 911 obviously, so unless you plan on driving it 10/10, the argument of the better handling car is a moot point.
I appreciate you bringing up all those points.
I am getting torn apart on this decision, because I remember having 911 posters on my bedroom wall when I was a kid.
And the 911 is somewhat sentimental to me because we are the same age. I was born in 1963 and it debuted the same year. We're like brothers.
I'm not a track rat so you are probably right about me extracting the last 10th performance out of the Cayman.
What I need to do is take them both out again, back to back and see which one makes me the happiest.
Like I said before, price is not part of the equation because there's only a few thousand separating the two, and it's the same with the warranties, since the car I'm interested in has a CPO until 2018.
There is one option on the 911 that concerns me which is "Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) Sport Suspension."
I've been reading up on this and some reviewers are saying that the 911's with this option feel unnatural or artificial, I guess because the natural feeling when a car drives through a corner is for it to lean on one side.
Is there any truth to this, an artificial feeling with (PDCC)?
http://www.excellence-mag.com/of-not...l#.VHltRMkZEgk
Quote "It enhances the 911’s handling capability, but the system also makes the car’s handling feel somewhat artificial."
Last edited by Maverick1; 11-29-2014 at 07:55 PM.
11-29-2014, 10:53 AM
#40
Drifting
Are you buying the car for Randy Pobst, or for yourself? Are you worried about what a car can do or what it will do for you? If you buy a car solely on comments from some hot shoe in a car magazine or some anonymous poster on the internet you are woefully misguided.
You have enough anecdotal info from your armchair research. Now it comes down to reality. You need to drive these cars and these options to see what you like.
I've actually owned these cars in question and took years in refining my choice. You need to step away from the computer and get started. Good luck. Have fun.
You have enough anecdotal info from your armchair research. Now it comes down to reality. You need to drive these cars and these options to see what you like.
I've actually owned these cars in question and took years in refining my choice. You need to step away from the computer and get started. Good luck. Have fun.
11-29-2014, 12:16 PM
#41
Drifting
Thanks.
I appreciate you brings up all those points.
I am getting torn apart on this decision, because I remember having 911 posters on my bedroom wall when I was a kid.
And the 911 is somewhat sentimental to me because we are the same age. I was born in 1963 and it debuted the same year. We're like brothers.
I'm not a track rat so you are probably right about me extracting the last 10th performance out of the Cayman.
What I need to do is take them both out again, back to back and see which one makes me the happiest.
Like I said before, price is not part of the equation because there's only a few thousand separating the two, and it's the same with the warranties, since the car I'm interested in has a CPO until 2018.
There is one option on the 911 that concerns me which is "Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) Sport Suspension."
I've been reading up on this and some reviewers are saying that the 911's with this option feel unnatural or artificial, I guess because the natural feeling when a car drives through a corner is for it to lean on one side.
Is there any truth to this, an artificial feeling with (PDCC)?
http://www.excellence-mag.com/of-not...l#.VHltRMkZEgk
Quote "It enhances the 911’s handling capability, but the system also makes the car’s handling feel somewhat artificial."
I appreciate you brings up all those points.
I am getting torn apart on this decision, because I remember having 911 posters on my bedroom wall when I was a kid.
And the 911 is somewhat sentimental to me because we are the same age. I was born in 1963 and it debuted the same year. We're like brothers.
I'm not a track rat so you are probably right about me extracting the last 10th performance out of the Cayman.
What I need to do is take them both out again, back to back and see which one makes me the happiest.
Like I said before, price is not part of the equation because there's only a few thousand separating the two, and it's the same with the warranties, since the car I'm interested in has a CPO until 2018.
There is one option on the 911 that concerns me which is "Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) Sport Suspension."
I've been reading up on this and some reviewers are saying that the 911's with this option feel unnatural or artificial, I guess because the natural feeling when a car drives through a corner is for it to lean on one side.
Is there any truth to this, an artificial feeling with (PDCC)?
http://www.excellence-mag.com/of-not...l#.VHltRMkZEgk
Quote "It enhances the 911’s handling capability, but the system also makes the car’s handling feel somewhat artificial."
Take anything you read with a grain of salt... especially anything regarding "artificially" feeling. This goes for everything, steering, PDCC, etc... I'd bet my life that most of the folks reviewing it can't tell the difference. Take the steering for example, so many people talked about it in "official" reviews and it basically spilled over onto forums, and people complaining about it. For me, I can't tell the f@cking difference, and I believe some people just repeat what they heard or simply experience a placebo effect. I can place the car exactly where I want it on the track, and get all the feedback I need.
Find a car with the options you are concerned about and test drive it, or just don't order the car with that option.
And again, if you like the feel of the Cayman better, buy it, and buy something nice for the wife and get some action in your Porsche.
11-29-2014, 12:44 PM
#42
Instructor
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Maverick1. Here is my simple suggestion based on reading your posts and what is known.
Just get a 991 Carrera GTS (RWD) with the manual 7 speed transmission and no other/minimal options. This should satisfy all your needs and address your concerns.
It's a 911 and will be faster (acceleration/laptimes) objectively than any current or previous Cayman (don't know about the upcoming Cayman GT4, though). Therefore, the "ego" gets satisfied, if that is of any importance to you.
With the longer 991 wheelbase, rear engine moved more forward than before, and modern suspension tuning, the 991 chassis has really tamed the rear engine "snap" oversteer tendency compared to previous generations of 911's. Front end grip in the 991 chassis is higher than ever before so there is less understeer compared to previous generations too. Therefore, any perceived handling benefit of the Cayman platform is decreased, especially if driven mostly on the streets and even on track days for most drivers (unless you are routinely driving over the grip limits of the car with all electronic aids off). From what I read of your intended use, this is a non-issue.
From the early reviews, it seems the 7 speed manual transmission in the 991 GTS is revised and improved upon significantly in terms of feel compared to older 991 stick shifts. Therefore, the subjective superiority of the 6 speed in the Cayman is also decreased.
The 991 GTS has many nice interior features that will make you feel you've bought something "special" compared to the Cayman/standard 991 and you'll feel this everytime you sit in it.
If I didn't already get a 991 GT3, the 991 Carrera GTS with minimal options is the 991 I would get without a second thought.
If you can't afford a new 991 GTS, then you have to decide what compromises you are willing to make (second hand 991/997 or Cayman variant). IMO, the 991 GTS ticks all the boxes for you.
Just get a 991 Carrera GTS (RWD) with the manual 7 speed transmission and no other/minimal options. This should satisfy all your needs and address your concerns.
It's a 911 and will be faster (acceleration/laptimes) objectively than any current or previous Cayman (don't know about the upcoming Cayman GT4, though). Therefore, the "ego" gets satisfied, if that is of any importance to you.
With the longer 991 wheelbase, rear engine moved more forward than before, and modern suspension tuning, the 991 chassis has really tamed the rear engine "snap" oversteer tendency compared to previous generations of 911's. Front end grip in the 991 chassis is higher than ever before so there is less understeer compared to previous generations too. Therefore, any perceived handling benefit of the Cayman platform is decreased, especially if driven mostly on the streets and even on track days for most drivers (unless you are routinely driving over the grip limits of the car with all electronic aids off). From what I read of your intended use, this is a non-issue.
From the early reviews, it seems the 7 speed manual transmission in the 991 GTS is revised and improved upon significantly in terms of feel compared to older 991 stick shifts. Therefore, the subjective superiority of the 6 speed in the Cayman is also decreased.
The 991 GTS has many nice interior features that will make you feel you've bought something "special" compared to the Cayman/standard 991 and you'll feel this everytime you sit in it.
If I didn't already get a 991 GT3, the 991 Carrera GTS with minimal options is the 991 I would get without a second thought.
If you can't afford a new 991 GTS, then you have to decide what compromises you are willing to make (second hand 991/997 or Cayman variant). IMO, the 991 GTS ticks all the boxes for you.
11-29-2014, 01:04 PM
#43
I am getting torn apart on this decision, because I remember having 911 posters on my bedroom wall when I was a kid.
And the 911 is somewhat sentimental to me because we are the same age. I was born in 1963 and it debuted the same year. We're like brothers.
I'm not a track rat so you are probably right about me extracting the last 10th performance out of the Cayman.
And the 911 is somewhat sentimental to me because we are the same age. I was born in 1963 and it debuted the same year. We're like brothers.
I'm not a track rat so you are probably right about me extracting the last 10th performance out of the Cayman.
The 911 is an icon for good reason and the 991 is a great iteration of it. If it is what you've had in the back of your mind as your ideal "this is what I'm going to get for myself once I've made it" then don't second guess it. It sounds very much like you are trying to rationalize a decision that is purely based on emotion.
Truth be told there is nothing wrong with either choice, but if you've had the 911 bug since you were a kid, why fight it. Live the dream, man!
-nh4.
11-29-2014, 01:15 PM
#44
Drifting
I think you should go through your post I quoted above again. To me it sounds very much like there is a very clear "right answer" for you... You had a 911 on your wall, you have an emotional attachment to the 911, you are not looking for a track car.
The 911 is an icon for good reason and the 991 is a great iteration of it. If it is what you've had in the back of your mind as your ideal "this is what I'm going to get for myself once I've made it" then don't second guess it. It sounds very much like you are trying to rationalize a decision that is purely based on emotion.
Truth be told there is nothing wrong with either choice, but if you've had the 911 bug since you were a kid, why fight it. Live the dream, man!
-nh4.
The 911 is an icon for good reason and the 991 is a great iteration of it. If it is what you've had in the back of your mind as your ideal "this is what I'm going to get for myself once I've made it" then don't second guess it. It sounds very much like you are trying to rationalize a decision that is purely based on emotion.
Truth be told there is nothing wrong with either choice, but if you've had the 911 bug since you were a kid, why fight it. Live the dream, man!
-nh4.
11-29-2014, 08:03 PM
#45
Maverick1. Here is my simple suggestion based on reading your posts and what is known.
Just get a 991 Carrera GTS (RWD) with the manual 7 speed transmission and no other/minimal options. This should satisfy all your needs and address your concerns.
It's a 911 and will be faster (acceleration/laptimes) objectively than any current or previous Cayman (don't know about the upcoming Cayman GT4, though). Therefore, the "ego" gets satisfied, if that is of any importance to you.
With the longer 991 wheelbase, rear engine moved more forward than before, and modern suspension tuning, the 991 chassis has really tamed the rear engine "snap" oversteer tendency compared to previous generations of 911's. Front end grip in the 991 chassis is higher than ever before so there is less understeer compared to previous generations too. Therefore, any perceived handling benefit of the Cayman platform is decreased, especially if driven mostly on the streets and even on track days for most drivers (unless you are routinely driving over the grip limits of the car with all electronic aids off). From what I read of your intended use, this is a non-issue.
From the early reviews, it seems the 7 speed manual transmission in the 991 GTS is revised and improved upon significantly in terms of feel compared to older 991 stick shifts. Therefore, the subjective superiority of the 6 speed in the Cayman is also decreased.
The 991 GTS has many nice interior features that will make you feel you've bought something "special" compared to the Cayman/standard 991 and you'll feel this everytime you sit in it.
If I didn't already get a 991 GT3, the 991 Carrera GTS with minimal options is the 991 I would get without a second thought.
If you can't afford a new 991 GTS, then you have to decide what compromises you are willing to make (second hand 991/997 or Cayman variant). IMO, the 991 GTS ticks all the boxes for you.
Just get a 991 Carrera GTS (RWD) with the manual 7 speed transmission and no other/minimal options. This should satisfy all your needs and address your concerns.
It's a 911 and will be faster (acceleration/laptimes) objectively than any current or previous Cayman (don't know about the upcoming Cayman GT4, though). Therefore, the "ego" gets satisfied, if that is of any importance to you.
With the longer 991 wheelbase, rear engine moved more forward than before, and modern suspension tuning, the 991 chassis has really tamed the rear engine "snap" oversteer tendency compared to previous generations of 911's. Front end grip in the 991 chassis is higher than ever before so there is less understeer compared to previous generations too. Therefore, any perceived handling benefit of the Cayman platform is decreased, especially if driven mostly on the streets and even on track days for most drivers (unless you are routinely driving over the grip limits of the car with all electronic aids off). From what I read of your intended use, this is a non-issue.
From the early reviews, it seems the 7 speed manual transmission in the 991 GTS is revised and improved upon significantly in terms of feel compared to older 991 stick shifts. Therefore, the subjective superiority of the 6 speed in the Cayman is also decreased.
The 991 GTS has many nice interior features that will make you feel you've bought something "special" compared to the Cayman/standard 991 and you'll feel this everytime you sit in it.
If I didn't already get a 991 GT3, the 991 Carrera GTS with minimal options is the 991 I would get without a second thought.
If you can't afford a new 991 GTS, then you have to decide what compromises you are willing to make (second hand 991/997 or Cayman variant). IMO, the 991 GTS ticks all the boxes for you.
From what I've read it's the closest thing to a 991 GT3 with the option of a manual.
Will be test driving more cars in the near future.
The final decision will have to be made from getting more in car experience.