c4s cab initial impressions
09-10-2014, 10:41 AM
#17
What is the best audio format/source to really hear the Burmester difference?
09-10-2014, 11:07 AM
#18
I teach my students this at the track when I Instruct and tell them if they follow this mantra, they will never get into trouble in a corner:
SLOW IN - FAST OUT.
To break it down a bit - the basic theory that is easy to remember:
1) Do all your braking in a straight line BEFORE you enter the turn.
2) Once you commit to the turn, smooth - smooth - smooth is the key and lay the power down.
3) If you feel you are in too hot in the corner, or it starts a decreasing radius on you that is not anticipated, NEVER stab the brakes - EVER in mid turn. Do not let off the gas. Your job now is to keep the car stable and balanced and it will hold the turn if you don't lose your nerve. When in too hot keep just enough gas on the pedal to maintain the balance of the car. Do not jerk the steering wheel around (this also unsettles the car), and make it a smooth arc. Your Porsche will make the corner if you do, every time.
4) Accelerating out of a corner gives you a slingshot effect and lots of exit speed. The real trick in performance driving it mostly in the braking up to the point ot turn-in, and how you set the corner up.
Virtually all corner spins and wrecks are caused by upsetting the car in the corner, carrying too much speed into it - panicking - correcting - then crashing. SLOW IN - FAST OUT.
SLOW IN - FAST OUT.
To break it down a bit - the basic theory that is easy to remember:
1) Do all your braking in a straight line BEFORE you enter the turn.
2) Once you commit to the turn, smooth - smooth - smooth is the key and lay the power down.
3) If you feel you are in too hot in the corner, or it starts a decreasing radius on you that is not anticipated, NEVER stab the brakes - EVER in mid turn. Do not let off the gas. Your job now is to keep the car stable and balanced and it will hold the turn if you don't lose your nerve. When in too hot keep just enough gas on the pedal to maintain the balance of the car. Do not jerk the steering wheel around (this also unsettles the car), and make it a smooth arc. Your Porsche will make the corner if you do, every time.
4) Accelerating out of a corner gives you a slingshot effect and lots of exit speed. The real trick in performance driving it mostly in the braking up to the point ot turn-in, and how you set the corner up.
Virtually all corner spins and wrecks are caused by upsetting the car in the corner, carrying too much speed into it - panicking - correcting - then crashing. SLOW IN - FAST OUT.
Thanks so much for such a helpful post.
Very much appreciated.
Question:
"2) Once you commit to the turn, smooth - smooth - smooth is the key and lay the power down."
Does that mean: maintain speed through the turn OR accelerate through the turn?
09-10-2014, 11:50 AM
#19
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But, if you are coming off an interstate ramp too hot or something like that and the road is tightening up on you, and you feel like you are going to fast, then don't accelerate, but don't let off the gas either. Keep it even and add just tiny bit of gas to keep the rear end settled. If you let off the gas, the rear end will shift and you go into trailing throttle oversteer mode, and the car is now out of balance and wants to spin, ***-end first.
Best thing to do is practice this a little bit, its easy to do and doesn't require a track or an instructor. Find an empty parking lot where you can play around, leave it in first gear and do a circle at speed (in first gear) at a constant arc. Go fast enough that the tires are beginning to chirp a little and hold that steering wheel solid and even into the circle, all the way around. Disable your Dynamic Stability Control. Now, once you are comfortable doing that, play around a little by letting off the gas abruptly and you will feel the car lurch and the rear end want to step out. Then do it again tapping the brakes. And then again by just adding a little gas when the tires are chirping. You can experience all these things we talk about at the track in a parking lot at 35 mph this way and you will see what I'm talking about. Takes 5 minutes to run through all this and you'll have new appreciation for how the driver inputs reflect how the car handles the corner.
P.S. Cops are not too keen on this, so pick a remote parking lot!
09-10-2014, 12:11 PM
#20
Race Car
so i bought a basalt black 2013 cpo c4s cabriolet with 6500 miles on it. after about 3 weeks and ~2000 miles i wanted to share a few impressions...
must learn to drive 911 properly: entered a sharp turn aggressively and the rear tires almost spun out - but the stability control kicked in before i freaked out. this happened twice, once on the first day and then again on the second day of ownership until i read somewhere that the rear tires must remain loaded through the turn. now i slow down a bit before the turn, gently accelerate in the first half of the turn and then get aggressive at the later half and exit. so much fun.
i'll probably benefit mightily from driving school.
i am so very lucky
must learn to drive 911 properly: entered a sharp turn aggressively and the rear tires almost spun out - but the stability control kicked in before i freaked out. this happened twice, once on the first day and then again on the second day of ownership until i read somewhere that the rear tires must remain loaded through the turn. now i slow down a bit before the turn, gently accelerate in the first half of the turn and then get aggressive at the later half and exit. so much fun.
i'll probably benefit mightily from driving school.
i am so very lucky
09-10-2014, 12:29 PM
#21
This depends on your situation. If you are set up well for the turn and did a nice late apex coming in and did your braking correctly, then yes, you accelerate and 'track out' to the edge, and you can typically do this at full throttle if pointed in the right direction...
But, if you are coming off an interstate ramp too hot or something like that and the road is tightening up on you, and you feel like you are going to fast, then don't accelerate, but don't let off the gas either. Keep it even and add just tiny bit of gas to keep the rear end settled. If you let off the gas, the rear end will shift and you go into trailing throttle oversteer mode, and the car is now out of balance and wants to spin, ***-end first.
Best thing to do is practice this a little bit, its easy to do and doesn't require a track or an instructor. Find an empty parking lot where you can play around, leave it in first gear and do a circle at speed (in first gear) at a constant arc. Go fast enough that the tires are beginning to chirp a little and hold that steering wheel solid and even into the circle, all the way around. Disable your Dynamic Stability Control. Now, once you are comfortable doing that, play around a little by letting off the gas abruptly and you will feel the car lurch and the rear end want to step out. Then do it again tapping the brakes. And then again by just adding a little gas when the tires are chirping. You can experience all these things we talk about at the track in a parking lot at 35 mph this way and you will see what I'm talking about. Takes 5 minutes to run through all this and you'll have new appreciation for how the driver inputs reflect how the car handles the corner.
P.S. Cops are not too keen on this, so pick a remote parking lot!
But, if you are coming off an interstate ramp too hot or something like that and the road is tightening up on you, and you feel like you are going to fast, then don't accelerate, but don't let off the gas either. Keep it even and add just tiny bit of gas to keep the rear end settled. If you let off the gas, the rear end will shift and you go into trailing throttle oversteer mode, and the car is now out of balance and wants to spin, ***-end first.
Best thing to do is practice this a little bit, its easy to do and doesn't require a track or an instructor. Find an empty parking lot where you can play around, leave it in first gear and do a circle at speed (in first gear) at a constant arc. Go fast enough that the tires are beginning to chirp a little and hold that steering wheel solid and even into the circle, all the way around. Disable your Dynamic Stability Control. Now, once you are comfortable doing that, play around a little by letting off the gas abruptly and you will feel the car lurch and the rear end want to step out. Then do it again tapping the brakes. And then again by just adding a little gas when the tires are chirping. You can experience all these things we talk about at the track in a parking lot at 35 mph this way and you will see what I'm talking about. Takes 5 minutes to run through all this and you'll have new appreciation for how the driver inputs reflect how the car handles the corner.
P.S. Cops are not too keen on this, so pick a remote parking lot!
Thanks so very much. Awesome !
09-10-2014, 12:54 PM
#22
09-10-2014, 01:25 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
09-10-2014, 02:34 PM
#24
Congrats on the beautiful car.
I enjoyed your review. Having owned my Cab for just a month, I completely agree with your assessments.
I, too, was seriously considering the Coupe, but the wife reminded me that we never have owned a convertible. Now that I have the Cab, I am ecstatic! Its like having 2 cars! Cruising the Las Vegas strip at night with the top down was sooooo much more enjoyable!
I don't know if you have PSE, but I am so happy I opted for it. Particularly with the top down, its simply intoxicating. I hope to take some driving lessons in the near future.
I haven't taken the car anywhere near the limit. But driving her puts a smile on my face every time.
I opted for the Escort Max Radar, very nice & cleanly installs under the rear view mirror.
I also installed the Smart Top. This is the way the car should have come stock. What a hassle having to hold the switch & the inability to lower top without being in car. So sweet to be walking towards car, pressing the unlock 3 times & watching the top fold for you to enjoy. For me, a must have.
We are, indeed, a very lucky few!
I enjoyed your review. Having owned my Cab for just a month, I completely agree with your assessments.
I, too, was seriously considering the Coupe, but the wife reminded me that we never have owned a convertible. Now that I have the Cab, I am ecstatic! Its like having 2 cars! Cruising the Las Vegas strip at night with the top down was sooooo much more enjoyable!
I don't know if you have PSE, but I am so happy I opted for it. Particularly with the top down, its simply intoxicating. I hope to take some driving lessons in the near future.
I haven't taken the car anywhere near the limit. But driving her puts a smile on my face every time.
I opted for the Escort Max Radar, very nice & cleanly installs under the rear view mirror.
I also installed the Smart Top. This is the way the car should have come stock. What a hassle having to hold the switch & the inability to lower top without being in car. So sweet to be walking towards car, pressing the unlock 3 times & watching the top fold for you to enjoy. For me, a must have.
We are, indeed, a very lucky few!
Is Escort Max the installed version or window mounted? Can you share a picture?
09-10-2014, 03:05 PM
#25
Racer
For normal spirited street driving try to enter a curve at lower rpm so you can gently squeeze the accelerator as you begin to feel the pull on the cornering car, but not to much that you run out of rpm before the end of the curve.
A trick for smooth cornering, especially with passengers, is to keep your eye on the end of the corner where you want your car to end up . . . either looking at a car in front of you already through the corner and where you want to end up or look ahead to the spot where the roadway straightens out. You will find that you can hold the steering wheel steady without the sawing motion often accompanying staring just at the roadway in front of you.
Your wife may never look up from her book
A trick for smooth cornering, especially with passengers, is to keep your eye on the end of the corner where you want your car to end up . . . either looking at a car in front of you already through the corner and where you want to end up or look ahead to the spot where the roadway straightens out. You will find that you can hold the steering wheel steady without the sawing motion often accompanying staring just at the roadway in front of you.
Your wife may never look up from her book
09-10-2014, 05:36 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
HA! Be thankful thee went into the corner too hot in a 991, if you'd have done that in a 70's or 80's vintage Porsche 911, you'd have got ***-end first into the Armco/Tree/Streetlamp or whatever was on that outside of that corner. Porsche has truly tamed the 911, and its not nearly as forgiving as a BMW, but on the other hand, there are things you can do with a rear engined car that no front engine car can come close to. Much quicker off the line and incredible stopping power are two of those things.
With a rear engined 911, you experience what is known as Trailing Throttle Oversteer. And if you lift off the gas in a corner while in hot, the car will spin and whip around to the outside of the corner, every time (unless the electronics save you). The trick is to not upset the car and maintain power through the corner - even if you think you are in too hot - don't lose your nerve, stay gently on the gas and the car will hold the corner every time unless you are going so fast you have exceeded the grip capability of the tires.
I've been driving 911's hard since 1976, including the ole tailwagger models. There's an art to hustling a 911, but once you learn it you really can make the car dance. BMW's are very forgiving, 911's are not. Makes it worthwhile to learn the car IMHO.
Tell you a quick story.....back in 1999, I had a track-prepped E36 M3 on R-Compound Tires. Hawk Racing pads, etc.. At Summit Point during an Instructor Session and I'd been catching a well-driven 964 Turbo another Instructor had out on the track. He was also on R-Comps. I'd gain a few seconds on him each lap and going down the main straight I was right on his *** to T1, which means coming down from around 135 mph to a 30 mph turn. He's going deep to T1 and so am I, as I intend to set him up for a T2 pass. Now, you'd have thought I'd know how damn fast these 911's can stop because I'd owned several of them, but apparently it slipped my mind because when he got on the brakes HARD so did I...but there was a little problem. He was slowing down much faster than I was in the BMW M3 and I was going to collect him up, my ABS was kicking in, my tires were chirping and there was no more rubber available to increase the stopping. I thought "Oh, this is going to be embarrassing, I'm going to punt him and spin him right in that pretty back end"...and I was waiting for the hit as we got down to the last five feet or so - but <thank doG> he jumped back on the gas to make the corner and I missed clipping him by not very much. <whew>. I never - EVER got that close to a 911 at the track again on a hard brake down from the straight, That rear engine bias really makes them stop quickly...
With a rear engined 911, you experience what is known as Trailing Throttle Oversteer. And if you lift off the gas in a corner while in hot, the car will spin and whip around to the outside of the corner, every time (unless the electronics save you). The trick is to not upset the car and maintain power through the corner - even if you think you are in too hot - don't lose your nerve, stay gently on the gas and the car will hold the corner every time unless you are going so fast you have exceeded the grip capability of the tires.
I've been driving 911's hard since 1976, including the ole tailwagger models. There's an art to hustling a 911, but once you learn it you really can make the car dance. BMW's are very forgiving, 911's are not. Makes it worthwhile to learn the car IMHO.
Tell you a quick story.....back in 1999, I had a track-prepped E36 M3 on R-Compound Tires. Hawk Racing pads, etc.. At Summit Point during an Instructor Session and I'd been catching a well-driven 964 Turbo another Instructor had out on the track. He was also on R-Comps. I'd gain a few seconds on him each lap and going down the main straight I was right on his *** to T1, which means coming down from around 135 mph to a 30 mph turn. He's going deep to T1 and so am I, as I intend to set him up for a T2 pass. Now, you'd have thought I'd know how damn fast these 911's can stop because I'd owned several of them, but apparently it slipped my mind because when he got on the brakes HARD so did I...but there was a little problem. He was slowing down much faster than I was in the BMW M3 and I was going to collect him up, my ABS was kicking in, my tires were chirping and there was no more rubber available to increase the stopping. I thought "Oh, this is going to be embarrassing, I'm going to punt him and spin him right in that pretty back end"...and I was waiting for the hit as we got down to the last five feet or so - but <thank doG> he jumped back on the gas to make the corner and I missed clipping him by not very much. <whew>. I never - EVER got that close to a 911 at the track again on a hard brake down from the straight, That rear engine bias really makes them stop quickly...
for the purposes of stopping (or slowing) a car on track compared to 911 stoppers...
even on the street I am always checking my rear view mirrors watching some Escalade tailgate me with those tiny 'dinner plate' rotors ... its always in the back of my mind that if I stop quickly my Mezger boxer will rapidly be replaced by an unwanted 6L V8 with additional parts at no extra charge...
09-12-2014, 02:40 PM
#27
Instructor
DVD-A
Dan
09-12-2014, 02:42 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
09-12-2014, 06:22 PM
#29
I ordered some large format slide film at the news of Fuji abandoning Veliva production. That was a few years ago - the camera has yet to come. Its in my refrigerator since then. My wife has even stopped complaining about it now.
Hopefully thou will ordereth a cab lief to goeth with thy smarttop
09-12-2014, 07:01 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
He He - thats pretty sick
I ordered some large format slide film at the news of Fuji abandoning Veliva production. That was a few years ago - the camera has yet to come. Its in my refrigerator since then. My wife has even stopped complaining about it now.
Hopefully thou will ordereth a cab lief to goeth with thy smarttop
I ordered some large format slide film at the news of Fuji abandoning Veliva production. That was a few years ago - the camera has yet to come. Its in my refrigerator since then. My wife has even stopped complaining about it now.
Hopefully thou will ordereth a cab lief to goeth with thy smarttop
I'm building my cab piece by piece!