Is it me or are paying a HUGE sum of money now for a new 911?
02-26-2013, 04:47 PM
#16
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Except we went from a (IIRC) ~74k base price for a 911 in 2009 (nominally, at introduction) to a 83k base price in 2012 (again at introduction). That's outpacing inflation by 2x and I think that's what a few here are feeling as "sticker shock"
02-26-2013, 04:56 PM
#17
If you feel it doesn't have sufficient value, don't buy one. It's as simple as that.
02-26-2013, 05:06 PM
#18
Most of my time is spent reading up on global financial affairs, which puts me out of tune with the majority here who want to whine ineffectually about what people are willing to pay, what deals they can get, etc etc. The last time this came up the only other person I recall getting it right is Rainier, maybe another one or two, in any case none of the others were American. Americans seem to be utterly oblivious to the fact that prices are rising because our currency is printed with abandon by a central bank able to issue (more accurately, counterfeit) the worlds reserve currency, thereby exporting inflation around the world.
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to grasp. It should be pretty obvious. Gas in the 60's could be had for around 10 cents a gallon. Today gas is right about the same 10 cents a gallon! With one catch: you have to pay with your gas with the original dime from the 60's, the one minted from 90% silver. Those have retained purchasing power. The counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes made of paper have not. THAT is the one AND ONLY reason your Porsche today costs so much more than back then!
In all of US history, from the time of the Pilgrims landing up until about 1913 there was mild price DEFLATION across all commodities. Don't take my word for it, google it, the charts and stats are there in abundance. PLEASE do this before whining on about options and what people are willing to pay. The fact is that in terms of REAL MONEY the Porsche on the market today costs LESS than in decades past. Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself! Prices fluctuate in the short term but if you pick some time say 10, 20, 30 or more years ago look at the USD cost of a 911 back then, look at the price of gold back then, convert the 911 price into gold ounces and WALA! The cost of a Porsche in terms of REAL MONEY- gold or silver- has gone down. It is only because we price the car in Federal Reserve Notes that it APPEARS to cost more!
Wages of course always lag inflation, which is why when priced in FRN's the Porsche not only appears more costly but costs more in terms of the hours needed to earn enough FRN's to buy one. Another reason why the car costs more because of the Federal Reserve and has nothing to do with Porsche, or demand, or any other car maker. Its not Porsche, its the currency!
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to grasp. It should be pretty obvious. Gas in the 60's could be had for around 10 cents a gallon. Today gas is right about the same 10 cents a gallon! With one catch: you have to pay with your gas with the original dime from the 60's, the one minted from 90% silver. Those have retained purchasing power. The counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes made of paper have not. THAT is the one AND ONLY reason your Porsche today costs so much more than back then!
In all of US history, from the time of the Pilgrims landing up until about 1913 there was mild price DEFLATION across all commodities. Don't take my word for it, google it, the charts and stats are there in abundance. PLEASE do this before whining on about options and what people are willing to pay. The fact is that in terms of REAL MONEY the Porsche on the market today costs LESS than in decades past. Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself! Prices fluctuate in the short term but if you pick some time say 10, 20, 30 or more years ago look at the USD cost of a 911 back then, look at the price of gold back then, convert the 911 price into gold ounces and WALA! The cost of a Porsche in terms of REAL MONEY- gold or silver- has gone down. It is only because we price the car in Federal Reserve Notes that it APPEARS to cost more!
Wages of course always lag inflation, which is why when priced in FRN's the Porsche not only appears more costly but costs more in terms of the hours needed to earn enough FRN's to buy one. Another reason why the car costs more because of the Federal Reserve and has nothing to do with Porsche, or demand, or any other car maker. Its not Porsche, its the currency!
02-26-2013, 05:32 PM
#20
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I think the new 991 offers substantial improvements over the previous 911's to justify the price increases.
Many of the option really aren't that important and can be avoided easily if cost is an issue.
I hope they continue to increase the price (as long as they give you something for it) as that will simply make my current 991 more valuable.
I also have no problem with Porsche making the 911 something that few can afford to own. I'll admit, that is part of what I was looking for.
Many of the option really aren't that important and can be avoided easily if cost is an issue.
I hope they continue to increase the price (as long as they give you something for it) as that will simply make my current 991 more valuable.
I also have no problem with Porsche making the 911 something that few can afford to own. I'll admit, that is part of what I was looking for.
02-26-2013, 05:37 PM
#21
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The appropriate question for me is what % of my income did I spend to purchase my first Porsche (1973) and what % of my income today did it cost me to purchase my current one.
By that measure I was (way) more profligate in 1972, and damn glad too.
02-26-2013, 05:37 PM
#22
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I know the base price on my TT Cab was $132K in 2004, or about $165K in 2012 dollars (using US CPI). And yes I know changes in currency values play a role, but in terms of spending power it's relevant.
Anyone know what the expected base price is on a 991 Turbo cab?
Anyone know what the expected base price is on a 991 Turbo cab?
02-26-2013, 05:50 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
IMO it is this, combined with the fact that performance of the base 911 has not improved in that time.
02-26-2013, 06:51 PM
#24
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As I spec out my 9th 911 I am suffering from a little bit of sticker shock.. sorry if this has been covered; I couldn't find any dedicated posts to sympathize with but at $143K for the Carrera S I am buying, I'm kind of blown away with the base and option costs.. the scariest option being the painted front headlight windshield washer nub.. really? Porsche AG couldn't just paint it as part of the car?
Anyway sorry to rant, I'm still ordering it, just amazed that we are now in Aston Martin territory for a non turbo or GT3 P car. Can't wait to take delivery of this thing.. planning on a Euro del and a week of ripping up Europe's roads
Anyway sorry to rant, I'm still ordering it, just amazed that we are now in Aston Martin territory for a non turbo or GT3 P car. Can't wait to take delivery of this thing.. planning on a Euro del and a week of ripping up Europe's roads
02-26-2013, 07:20 PM
#25
If you look at gold, oil, land, stock prices, or most other goods, you'll find they all have gone up a roughly similar magnitude over the past 50 years (well over the claimed rate of inflation - shocking!) - which strongly implies it's not those items that have gotten more expensive, but that our currency continues to lose its value. It's currently something like 2% of the value it had about 100 years ago, which is an impressive downward spiral!
Another truly sick joke is the encouragement to 'save' money - a bank is the last place you want it if you don't want to just watch it lose value while being taxed on your minimal interest 'earnings'. Of course, the fact that you get taxed on so-called gains that are almost soley due to the loss of value of the dollar is pretty twisted too. Your gold, silver, oil, land, house, etc. probably didn't actually grow (or magically improve itself... sure wish my house would). Sure, there's some price speculation as well, but clearly adjusted over time most taxes on gains on items like that are just adding insult to injury.
Anyway, I'd be happy to point out that both US political parties have had huge amounts of involvement in screwing things up through bad revenue policy, high government spending, bonus wars, bad fiscal policy (Fed), trade policy, etc., so I'm not trying for any party-based mud-slinging, and that the only rational response is to get yourself a 911 while you can and forget about this kind of cr4p while enjoying the sound of the flat 6 behind you. It's certainly my approach.
02-26-2013, 07:27 PM
#26
That's not a Ron Paul endorsement, more of a statement on the totally vacuous level of discussion in politics today. Apparently glib one-liners about "I'll put MY money on the American worker" or just "America is the greatest nation in the history of the world" at some point became 'answers' to guide government policy... Yuck.
Anyway, sorry for adding to this all - I end up having to explain to my kids why the same car cost so much less 50 years ago when they say "Wow, you could buy one then for just X thousand dollars!?!?".
02-26-2013, 09:38 PM
#27
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I think I will delete the nipples.. great idea.
As for some of the other replies, I can whine if I want to effectively or ineffectively. I'm aware of global markets, deflation etc.. In the oil business we charges what people were willing to pay (we thought) Look at the Rolex Daytona in steel - you could buy that watch for 6600 USD a few years ago and flip it for 11K. Today they are 11K.. I get it. Its all about demand and those like myself paying up. And I can complain about it and still buy it. I hardly need to be lectured about "missing the point". I remember when several years ago, the new 996 (i believe) was released at a substantial discount to the 993.. 5K ish as I remember. I get paying for new, better tech but we all have long memories about what is value and what isn't..
As for some of the other replies, I can whine if I want to effectively or ineffectively. I'm aware of global markets, deflation etc.. In the oil business we charges what people were willing to pay (we thought) Look at the Rolex Daytona in steel - you could buy that watch for 6600 USD a few years ago and flip it for 11K. Today they are 11K.. I get it. Its all about demand and those like myself paying up. And I can complain about it and still buy it. I hardly need to be lectured about "missing the point". I remember when several years ago, the new 996 (i believe) was released at a substantial discount to the 993.. 5K ish as I remember. I get paying for new, better tech but we all have long memories about what is value and what isn't..
02-26-2013, 09:57 PM
#28
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It's an amazing machine.. drives better than it looks and that is saying something. I did the throttle body/belts/pulleys/FRPP exhaust.. ridiculously loud and fast. 700+HP on the dyno. Too loud to run at the track except on test and tune days.. However, its what every other car I have or have had is judged against so its not all peaches and cream. Ive put 8000+ miles on it (including a 1100 mi weekend) and am always amazed at those that don't drive their cars.
02-26-2013, 10:21 PM
#29
To all of you that are ordering new cars, I thank you. You're the ones that put used cars on the market that I can buy 5 years from now!
I belive my 29 year old 911 with just 3 options was just under $35k when new in '84... What does that equate to in today's dollars?
02-26-2013, 10:26 PM
#30
Most of my time is spent reading up on global financial affairs, which puts me out of tune with the majority here who want to whine ineffectually about what people are willing to pay, what deals they can get, etc etc. The last time this came up the only other person I recall getting it right is Rainier, maybe another one or two, in any case none of the others were American. Americans seem to be utterly oblivious to the fact that prices are rising because our currency is printed with abandon by a central bank able to issue (more accurately, counterfeit) the worlds reserve currency, thereby exporting inflation around the world.
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to grasp. It should be pretty obvious. Gas in the 60's could be had for around 10 cents a gallon. Today gas is right about the same 10 cents a gallon! With one catch: you have to pay with your gas with the original dime from the 60's, the one minted from 90% silver. Those have retained purchasing power. The counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes made of paper have not. THAT is the one AND ONLY reason your Porsche today costs so much more than back then!
In all of US history, from the time of the Pilgrims landing up until about 1913 there was mild price DEFLATION across all commodities. Don't take my word for it, google it, the charts and stats are there in abundance. PLEASE do this before whining on about options and what people are willing to pay. The fact is that in terms of REAL MONEY the Porsche on the market today costs LESS than in decades past. Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself! Prices fluctuate in the short term but if you pick some time say 10, 20, 30 or more years ago look at the USD cost of a 911 back then, look at the price of gold back then, convert the 911 price into gold ounces and WALA! The cost of a Porsche in terms of REAL MONEY- gold or silver- has gone down. It is only because we price the car in Federal Reserve Notes that it APPEARS to cost more!
Wages of course always lag inflation, which is why when priced in FRN's the Porsche not only appears more costly but costs more in terms of the hours needed to earn enough FRN's to buy one. Another reason why the car costs more because of the Federal Reserve and has nothing to do with Porsche, or demand, or any other car maker. Its not Porsche, its the currency!
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to grasp. It should be pretty obvious. Gas in the 60's could be had for around 10 cents a gallon. Today gas is right about the same 10 cents a gallon! With one catch: you have to pay with your gas with the original dime from the 60's, the one minted from 90% silver. Those have retained purchasing power. The counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes made of paper have not. THAT is the one AND ONLY reason your Porsche today costs so much more than back then!
In all of US history, from the time of the Pilgrims landing up until about 1913 there was mild price DEFLATION across all commodities. Don't take my word for it, google it, the charts and stats are there in abundance. PLEASE do this before whining on about options and what people are willing to pay. The fact is that in terms of REAL MONEY the Porsche on the market today costs LESS than in decades past. Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself! Prices fluctuate in the short term but if you pick some time say 10, 20, 30 or more years ago look at the USD cost of a 911 back then, look at the price of gold back then, convert the 911 price into gold ounces and WALA! The cost of a Porsche in terms of REAL MONEY- gold or silver- has gone down. It is only because we price the car in Federal Reserve Notes that it APPEARS to cost more!
Wages of course always lag inflation, which is why when priced in FRN's the Porsche not only appears more costly but costs more in terms of the hours needed to earn enough FRN's to buy one. Another reason why the car costs more because of the Federal Reserve and has nothing to do with Porsche, or demand, or any other car maker. Its not Porsche, its the currency!