rpilot

Search the forum. Gary has written extensively on this very subject. If I remember correctly, some of those observations are similar to what jmct says above. These are sound principles and make sense. They do not contradict what Porsche's simplistic statement in the manual says. They simply expand on it if you are so inclined. And if you are not so inclined, I believe Porsche's statement to take it easy for the first 2K miles makes complete sense.

If someone wants to believe motoman says, that is their prerogative. Out of curiosity, I clicked that link. After quickly skimming the page where he states to change the engine oil after 20 miles and to substitute synthetic for regular oil, thats where I decided to close that window. I did not need to read anymore.

And for the record, whether you want to believe it or not, Porsche engineers do know more about the engines they build than some random yahoo somewhere !

simsgw

I can give you the phone number for my school of engineering. They keep an entire faculty on hand for that purpose. Rather pricey, but scholarships are available.

I don't really mean to offend, because I'm sure you don't realize how silly and worn-out your position is. We get this constantly. People say "I think such and such. Why won't you spend time showing me why I'm wrong?" Because I don't care. That's why. Go look on the back shelves of a bookstore, or these days just google the subject. You'll find somebody willing to spend weeks typing in a long-winded justification of your very own preconceived notions. Why should you change your mind? Pick a notion you don't care about and test that technique. See if I'm wrong. You can do whatever you prefer and feel justified because somebody with a smoking keyboard agrees with you.

Typing is easy. Actually knowing the answer to a question requires

1. a good reason to bother;
2. the training and tools to inquire;
3. expensive research and time to do it.

Porsche have done that and their answer is consistent with what we professionals know from similar questions in other fields, like spaceflight in my case. No one of us has number one, that good reason, to inquire why people don't want to accept the advice of experienced engineers. We don't care. Porsche engineers don't care what Marketing does with their results any more than I care what you do. If it sells more cars in Europe or Singapore or Ohio to tell people they can drive them into a sweat right off the floor, then by all means tell them that. We don't care.

Are you starting to understand our position?

It isn't really just engine break-in. It's any topic where the untrained intuition says it should be one way and people who spend years researching the question learn the answer is something else. Like... no! [I started to list other topics, but God knows we have enough silliness arising from this one without poking another bear.]

You already have the technical basis for my answer: I said so.

If you want to discuss that conclusion, enroll in engineering school and come back in six years when we can debate from the same foundation of knowledge and mathematical tools. Meanwhile, don't expect an argument from me or any other engineer. Until you pony up a fee, we really don't give a hoot how you take care of your car. And not much then. I've had more than one client pay a quarter million for advice and then do something else. Technical reasons don't always matter most. I hate to be trite, but Cindy laughed all the way to the bank when I told her. That really happens.

If it pleases you to drive your car hard and put it away wet, then go for it.

We don't care.

Gary

ScorpionT

I already have a minor background in engineering, so no need to go enroll in school again for it.

As I said, I have based my theories strictly from my personal experiences. If someone asks for advice, I will tell them what I have found in real world applications. If someone wants to argue about it and call it a conspiracy theory, he better be able to back it up. If not, then he shouldnt say anything to the contrary.

I take the scientific approach to everything. I dont test one theory and form a final conclusion about what works and what doesnt, I see each scenario or method and use comparative analysis.

As I said before, you didnt give input one way or the other on the subject, so I wasnt trying to argue with you. Im saying anyone who tries to sway someone one way or another should offer helpful input. The topic of this thread was help with the best engine break in method. I believe the OP is looking for factual information so he can make the decision based on what sounds most logical to me (OP, correct me if I am wrong on that point).

I dont care how someone else drives their car, has no bearing on my life. When someone asks for advice and I have knowledge to share, Im always willing to help.

speed21

LOL!

Um, don't mean to be rude but exactly what technical arena are you referring to? Motomans, yours? Please. Enough already....lol

I would however concede offering further technical explanation on this matter and/or explaining my profession would be a complete utter waste of time. I've offered my take on this subject too many times previously and i'm getting tired. These days I prefer the entertainment side to it only.

jmct's account is 100% correct. It says it all.

And, frankly I really don't care how you or anyone else chooses to drive your car......which is another reason why i always prefer to buy new.

speed21

Yep. So so true. Those blessed internet gurus. lol.

And it's sure puzzling alright. Possibly just an anything goes approach in a bid to get some form of a toehold in on the subject...?...can only be that.

Popcorn is definitely the best way to go on this one for sure.

Frenzyy

In this case, nobody should ever buy a 991 off the lot that has more than a few miles on it? I'm sure atleast a few people rev'ed it to redline on their test drive with a car that has 200miles on it.

rpilot

Yes, but only if you replace the Mobil 1 with Olive oil first. Olimoto man on the internet says its good for boxer engines.

simsgw

We have been asked what is the best way to treat one's engine. No one says the engine will explode at 20,000 miles if you abuse it, but soldier on to 200,000 miles if you break it in correctly. Just like life, complex devices are not that simple. Overall, the outcome is better when you break in an engine properly. So that's what we recommend doing.

Unless you have a few quarts of first-press virgin olive oil on hand. Then visit Olimotoman.com for his advice..

Gary, who definitely prefers new cars to used ones but we don't always get a choice, and please don't let's get started on how to choose a good used car

DrJay

HA, I am in luck. Why just the other week I purchased the very first VIRGIN pressing of Olive Oil according to the girl at the grocery store... Surely the virgin pressing will be the best for the longevity of my engine. The Porsche gods will no doubt appreciate it.

Interestingly, I wrote that before even reading simsgw's post.

chuckbdc

You are all set. Drink a glass and you will go FAST!

DrJay

I'll be going fast alright...

speed21

Olimotoman. The man with all the answers....hehe....lol.

jmct

SB - I just thought of one other thing I'm not sure has been discussed yet as it is relatively new. I will disable the auto start-stop feature during the first couple/few hundred miles. This is a new feature to the 911 and I don't know if the break-in instructions address it, but frequent start-stops are not considered good for break-in because of the slight decrease in uniform heat distribution. The impact of this is hard to know but another way to think about it is before auto start-stop was a feature, no one was advising turning on and off your engine at every red light.

One other thing I forgot to mention in my other post is that if you saw the references to the mototuneusa.com website, the reason I wasn't pursuaded by his argument is primarily because he shows 2-cycle engine pistons and they have such a different combustion cycle and process than a 4-cycle that it didn't make sense to give his evidence a lot of weight in connection with a Porsche 911 engine and its engineers' advice. He states that his evidence should be considered universal but that is not a sensible comment in my opinion for the same reason I wrote in the preceding sentence. Possibly others in the forum have already pointed this out. Reading the Wikipedia pages for 2-and 4-cycle engines gives a pretty good example of how different the combustion is and why I am concluding that mototuneusa's information is not too compelling for our purposes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine).

jmct

Hello chuck911: In a post a few minutes ago in this thread, I commented on why I discount mototuneusa.com's evidence on break-in. Essentially, the combustion cycles of 2- and 4-cycle are substantially different and so while his advice may be good for a 2-cycle, it is a leap to suggest it is universal. The Wikipedia links show a good illustration of the differences as a point of reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine

I did not see much from mototuneusa.com to support his assertion that his results should be viewed universally - would you mind commenting on why you feel so strongly about its applicability to 911 break-in?

Thanks

speed21

Lol.

I think he dug the hole deep enough putting it up in the first place. Something tells me that trying to explain it will only make that hole deeper.

PS. From my understanding RL is supposed to be more of a technical forum free of this silly tripe. If only Olimotoman's story was posted up at 6bling they would have lapped it up, and with rep points.