911SLOW

Nominated for the "most wishful-thinking quote" award for 2012.
A true romantic..

Sadly, we will end up with a black boxed hybrid one with no off buttons, pending the radio's TAs. : )

Bob Rouleau

Technology moves on and the newer cars are much easier to drive fast than the older ones. Novices in the 991S are turning lap times which are better than pro racers in a stock 993. Sheesh! On the other hand I wonder if people who learn to drive (DE) in the new technology laden cars really know how to drive or are they simply operating a computer controlled conveyance. The Nissan GT-R comes to mind. I've seen a guy drive his Godzilla really fast. Then get in a 458 and be much slower. Hmmmmmmm....

solomonschris

My 993 is my avatar because I think it is the most beautiful 911 ever. I can sit in my garage and just stare at it. My 991 is a great car but doesn't hold a candle in terms of looks.

sfo

understand .. just noticed that your 993 is also listed first

sfo

this might be of interest:

http://pistonheads.shotdeadinthehead....aspx?pid=4932

solomonschris

I have never worn car brand shirts or jackets, I'm not sure why. I do have some old Triumph motorcycle tee's that I wear and one original 50 yr old Bultaco tee. The Bultaco tee has shrunk to the point I can't wear it. It fit fine when I was 17. I do still have my Bentley umbrella. I refer to it as my $30,000 umbrella. If you ever want to experience the thrill of truly breathtaking depreciation, buy a Bentley GTC.

Quadcammer

People haven't gotten tired of this silly argument yet? The 991 is a real porsche and a real 911. Who cares if porsche dilutes its brand if it still produces cars like the gt3?

As for lamborghini, you have got to be kidding.

The countach was the biggest piece of **** on the planet. One of my least favorite cars to drive...ever.

Diablo...ok some what better but still a hamfisted truck for a sports car. The murcie drives better but its huge, useless on b roads, and aside from thrust...nothing special.

The gallardo on the other hand is quick yet nimble, handles well, rides fairly decent, has excellent build quality and doesn't break if you look at it funny.

If you don't think its a real lambo, go ahead and buy a countach and want to kill yourself every time you drive it

Carrera GT

You'd need to read my post before attempting to rebut what I was arguing. I know, it's a wall of words, no need to bother, but putting graffiti on my wall, that's just a mess, not an expression of opinion. : )

As for the Gallardo vs Countach, it's not just which car is outright quick (give or take half a century, for Pete's sake!) but which product embodies the spirit and history of the brand. The Gallardo is an Audi cafe racer, not a Lambo. The Countach and Diablo are both wild, uncivilized bulls that can barely be run around Pamplona, much less find an apex. But that was Lambo. To each their own.

What happens to your opinion of the successor 911 to the 991 if it's a platform sharing exercise with an Audi R8 and the only difference is the engine fore or aft of the transaxle? Right. So where do you draw this elastic line of yours?

To me, we have a hard line on the race track, not a line in the sand, not a moving boundary of intrusion. We have the inviolate, immutable essence of the 911. To quote Picard, "This far, and no farther!"

solomonschris

I think you are both right...just depends on your perspective. To use more affordable examples: I would rather have a BN4 Austin Healy as my "sports car" than a Miata. It is a piece of crap, to use Quad's words, compared to the Miata, which can go decades without breaking. On the track it wouldn't be a contest, even if the AH could have modern rubber.
Any yet even with those shortcomings, I'll take the Healy. It is the essence,to me at least, of what a sports roadster is. It was also cheap enough that most could afford one early in life. Unless you went straight from college to Goldman Sachs, I don't see many 21 yr olds buying a new 991. So I don't see any really definitive way to define "sports car". It is easier to describe an attribute that eliminates a car from being considered a sports car. "Seats 6" would be an example, or gets 80 mpg another. After that it gets harder. AWD was found on 959, a sports car most of us would kill for, and some really fine fast 2 seat cars don't have clutches. Admittedly not slush boxes, but you get the point. My buddy's GT3 has air conditioning, cruise, nav, axle lift, digital ashtrays and maybe a psychoceramic transmodulator for all I know and it is most definitely a sports car. So if your car makes you smile and you just love an excuse to drive it, and you think it's a sports car, then for you it is and that's what matters. I'll end my rant


"piece of crap" doesn't eliminate

Bill_C4S

am surprised to the extent that many extoll the virtues of 70s/80s italiana in general

for each extraordinary 288 GTO, F40 or Daytona, there is a stable of truly questionable material....Mondial...400...412....Jarama....Urraco....Jalpa.... and the 348, the last a car Luca described on taking the CEO position as a "piece of sh!te....

so yes lambo produced the first supercar with the Miura....but Ferruccio first made his mark in the tractor space....and some of his earliest cars...rather inherited that DNA....

So CGT I get your point mate...but i'll differ...to me Piech breathed substance into Bugatti, Lambo, Bentley...and I fully expect Ducati......

Porsche holds a different sentiment in the stable....it wears the badge which enshrines the family's achievement.....i suspect it will direct...rather than be directed to....at least whilst Ferdinand has a say.

jumper5836

I agree but I don't think they will. Leave all the luxury interior and driving aids for the 911 and just give us the basics and similar hp.

jumper5836

I think your right. I think my driving ability is stunted by driving something to easy to drive and it's 10 years old. Had I learnt from crappy cars with crappy tires I'd be a much better driver then I am.

Carrera GT

It would be just great if they took the new Boxster and said "oh yeah, the Spider is now in the line-up, not an end-of-model special, it's stripped down, lowered windshield, lnormal coil-over-dampers, we've improved the crappy leotard roof, but otherwise, more horse, less weight, no froufrou" ...

but alas, I'm a dreamer (it feels like the only one) when it comes to expecting Porsche to surprise me with a "we decided to build another 10,000 cases and cranks fo the 4.0 RS engine and put it in this special lightweight, RSR-bodied 991, sorry, it's 6spd manual only, just to tide you over until we have the next race engine, you know, the flat 8, 650 horse, 10,000 rpm monster ..."

Mike in CA

I did read your nicely written "wall of words" but the top quote above stood out and I don't think it was dilluted by your context. You must have seen the recent Motor Trend test choosing the "Best Drivers Car" as it was linked in several threads in different forums, where the 991S was compared to the McClaren MP4, Lambo Aventador, and other notable cars. Quoting from the article:

"That's what I'm talking about! Right there! Holy cow, it makes all these other cars seem stupid! This 911 is so good, it just blows my mind! What a great driving car!" The previous quote is from (Randy) Pobst the second he pulled into the pits (at Laguna Seca) and exited the vehicle.

We all agreed with him. Actually, we really agreed with him. The Porsche 911 received seven first-place votes from the seven judges, and an eighth first-place vote from Randy. In fact, the 911 Carrera S was the only car where we unanimously agreed on its finishing order. Nothing but first-place votes means there wasn't even discussion. Just praise."

Doesn't exactly sound like they were driving a "gentle riding nag", does it?

Carrera GT

I have to concede my proclivity for hyperbole gets the better of me from time to time when I'm trying to be succinct on Rennlist (no kidding! I'm seriously trying! : )

Keep in mind, I have a 991 S and I'm a defender of the car against criticisms (that don't include the steering) but I still want Porsche to come back to the 4.0 RS and say "let's see what we can do to make this lighter and sharper..."

I've driven the 991S about 4000 miles, in all conditions other than snow and the 997C4S in equivalent circumstances, tracks, roads, tires, setup. It's superior to the 997S in some ways, inferior in vital factors, too. The 991 might be a "win" compared to a 12C or an Aventador, I think that's just dreary prosaic nonsense from an advertising magazine and my allegiance to the 911 doesn't push me that far. I'd say the 4.0RS and even the 3.8RS are more appealing to me and arguably "better" than the current crop of technological wonders like the 12C and the 458. I can't justify the risk of a $200K 4.0 on the track and I haven't found anything to convince me to sell the 3.8 RS.

The Aventador has to be seen to be believed -- I've been at Thunderhill for a private day when a then "first kid on the block" Aventador was being driven quite quickly -- it's a car you don't want to pass, you just want to take in the sights and sounds of it. It's back to the good old, bad and mad old days of Lambo. Wild, ostentatious appearance, a robotic shift that's so brutal, it's absurd. It all makes sense to me! The 12C is too sterile and clinical. Let's see how its track-oriented variant comes along. The 458 is a depreciation cliff-dive and I'm not so taken with the design -- I'm stuck on the 430 Scuderia, though it's no match for the new machine. I don't see the 991 GT3 winning me over. Maybe. I'm more likely in the 991 C4S Targa with a power kit, then waiting for the 991 RS. If that's a let-down, I think it's time to hang up on Porsche and drive a 997 RS to my grave. And a 993 GT2. Maybe an '89 Turbo. And a 73 RS clone with a nice 2.7 MFI and period correct handling (with better brakes...) And ...