Multiple Quality Problems on 991
06-24-2012, 05:45 PM
#31
The problems you've outlined revolve around the dealership, not so much the car.
I don't know TX, but in CA, it's a cumulative number of days out of service that triggers Lemon Law and PCNA can go to arbitration, but that doesn't do anything except require the customer to prove the facts.
This is a sandbagging tactic on their part and just challenges the customer to retain a para-legal to keep up the paper chase.
It sounds like you won't be happy with the car, the dealer or the ownership experience. I'd put the Lemon Law iron in the fire at the same time as test-driving a 997 GTS equivalent and perhaps something from Audi/BMW/Mercedes or whatever other brands you'd be happy to find in the garage of a morning.
As noted by others, once you start the "negative" feedback cycle, things deteriorate and there's no easy path towards reconciliation.
For what it's worth, aside from the fuel line recall (which I found a tad too risky to ignore) my 991S is a zero defect car. Not a rattle or a squeak, no wind noise.
Everything I dislike about the car came by intention in the design from the factory. : )
* The Bose audio reproduces music with the balance, sound stage and fidelity of two tins cans with a piece of taught string.
* The steering is as if driving the car via email.
* The suspension was designed with a penchant for wistful reminiscences of the road passed over and the timing of a hack stock trader -- buy every high bump on the road, sell every low pothole.
* The stretch limousine wheelbase boasts rear seat legroom (surely not in the top ten things a 911 buyer would consider a deal maker or breaker) and trades agility and excitement for aplomb and ease.
And on, and on it goes.
At the end of the day, the 991 has not disappointed me, though it falls far short of my hopes, rather like each incoming US President.
The dealership has certainly not disappointed me -- they are who and we thought they were and we let them off the hook every time we buy a Porsche and suffer Pontiac standards of sales and service.
I don't know TX, but in CA, it's a cumulative number of days out of service that triggers Lemon Law and PCNA can go to arbitration, but that doesn't do anything except require the customer to prove the facts.
This is a sandbagging tactic on their part and just challenges the customer to retain a para-legal to keep up the paper chase.
It sounds like you won't be happy with the car, the dealer or the ownership experience. I'd put the Lemon Law iron in the fire at the same time as test-driving a 997 GTS equivalent and perhaps something from Audi/BMW/Mercedes or whatever other brands you'd be happy to find in the garage of a morning.
As noted by others, once you start the "negative" feedback cycle, things deteriorate and there's no easy path towards reconciliation.
For what it's worth, aside from the fuel line recall (which I found a tad too risky to ignore) my 991S is a zero defect car. Not a rattle or a squeak, no wind noise.
Everything I dislike about the car came by intention in the design from the factory. : )
* The Bose audio reproduces music with the balance, sound stage and fidelity of two tins cans with a piece of taught string.
* The steering is as if driving the car via email.
* The suspension was designed with a penchant for wistful reminiscences of the road passed over and the timing of a hack stock trader -- buy every high bump on the road, sell every low pothole.
* The stretch limousine wheelbase boasts rear seat legroom (surely not in the top ten things a 911 buyer would consider a deal maker or breaker) and trades agility and excitement for aplomb and ease.
And on, and on it goes.
At the end of the day, the 991 has not disappointed me, though it falls far short of my hopes, rather like each incoming US President.
The dealership has certainly not disappointed me -- they are who and we thought they were and we let them off the hook every time we buy a Porsche and suffer Pontiac standards of sales and service.
06-24-2012, 07:44 PM
#32
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I have read the posts here and usually do not jump in, but I have read that most of your issues with the car are dealership related. The remote entry functions exactly as it is supposed to in design and is not a flaw! It is the major reason that I did not order remote entry.
I know how you feel, I had 2005 Touareg when I could not find a Cayenne that was a horror show, in the shop more than driving and after 4 years of a lease had 15K miles, yet did not qualify for the lemon law sine the problems began when the car was eight months old.
My advice is to try another dealership, speak to the service manager and see how much help they can be.
I know how you feel, I had 2005 Touareg when I could not find a Cayenne that was a horror show, in the shop more than driving and after 4 years of a lease had 15K miles, yet did not qualify for the lemon law sine the problems began when the car was eight months old.
My advice is to try another dealership, speak to the service manager and see how much help they can be.
Last edited by dochusar; 06-24-2012 at 07:45 PM. Reason: fat fingers typing
06-25-2012, 01:32 AM
#33
I have personally been through 2 Texas Lemon Law cases: 1 against GM and 1 against Nissan NA/Infiniti. A couple things to note: in order to file you must have it in for the same problem with at least 4 attempts to fix or the car must be in for repair for a minimum of 30 days across the first year. Under the 4 time rule, the issue must effect the drive-ability of the vehicle. Under the 30 day rule, only days where you are not provided a vehicle count. Hence if you receive a service loaner every time you go in for repair, you will not qualify.
I was successful in a Lemon Law case against GM because:
1. The vehicle was in for 4+ times for drivetrain related issues that affected the use of the vehicle
2. The vehicle spent over 45 days in the shop its first year
3. No service loaner was provided, although my extended warranty paid for most of the rental car cost
My Lemon Law case against Nissan/Infiniti was less successful, although I did get a repair order and a 5-figure check out of Nissan NA:
1. TXDOT did not count any of the days that I had a service loaner. Since I always had a service loaner, none of the days counted
2. None of the issues (stereo problems, rattles, power seat failures, etc.) effected drive-ability of the vehicle
3. As a result, they just issued a repair order
4. I got the check as a result of Nissan NAs poor handling of my case. A repair order is a COURT ORDER. That means, subject to penalty under law. Nissan/Inifiniti was responsible for contacting within 30 days to arrange for the repair of the vehicle, but failed to do so. This resulted in TXDOT filed an enforcement action. I was given a cash offer to settle the enforcement action.
Based on my experiences, this is what you should expect:
1. If you file under the Texas Lemon Law, there is better than a 50% chance they will not accept your case.
2. If they do so, you will only get a repair order after going through 6+ months of proceedings. This is basically the same as just taking the car in for service. I would recommend to just try a different dealer.
Probably a better action since the majority of your problems seem to be dealer and not manufacturer based is to file an arbitration under the BBB Auto Line program. The dealer pays the cost and can even be held responsible to pay another dealer to repair your vehicle.
I was successful in a Lemon Law case against GM because:
1. The vehicle was in for 4+ times for drivetrain related issues that affected the use of the vehicle
2. The vehicle spent over 45 days in the shop its first year
3. No service loaner was provided, although my extended warranty paid for most of the rental car cost
My Lemon Law case against Nissan/Infiniti was less successful, although I did get a repair order and a 5-figure check out of Nissan NA:
1. TXDOT did not count any of the days that I had a service loaner. Since I always had a service loaner, none of the days counted
2. None of the issues (stereo problems, rattles, power seat failures, etc.) effected drive-ability of the vehicle
3. As a result, they just issued a repair order
4. I got the check as a result of Nissan NAs poor handling of my case. A repair order is a COURT ORDER. That means, subject to penalty under law. Nissan/Inifiniti was responsible for contacting within 30 days to arrange for the repair of the vehicle, but failed to do so. This resulted in TXDOT filed an enforcement action. I was given a cash offer to settle the enforcement action.
Based on my experiences, this is what you should expect:
1. If you file under the Texas Lemon Law, there is better than a 50% chance they will not accept your case.
2. If they do so, you will only get a repair order after going through 6+ months of proceedings. This is basically the same as just taking the car in for service. I would recommend to just try a different dealer.
Probably a better action since the majority of your problems seem to be dealer and not manufacturer based is to file an arbitration under the BBB Auto Line program. The dealer pays the cost and can even be held responsible to pay another dealer to repair your vehicle.
Last edited by 10 GT3; 06-25-2012 at 01:49 AM.
06-25-2012, 03:54 PM
#34
I wouln't buy a 1st model year vehicle- ever again. The only 2 I've ever had have been a headache, though no need for the Lemon Law, thankfully.
I drove the 991 out of curiosity (I agree the auto wind deflector is pretty cool), but I bought the left over 997.2 sitting beside it on the lot at 20%+ off sticker. That's the beauty of new models- it makes the only fractionally less appealing outgoing model so much cheaper to buy!
The model before the new one always has the bugs/gremlins worked out. I realize some people have to have the latest and greatest, and I appreciate that. The 997.2 is all any driver would ever need and then some, frankly.
Oh, and as for the wind deflector? I haven't even unzipped the bag in the trunk- I find you don't even need the wind deflector one thousand miles later! Let alone a price hiking auto version.
I drove the 991 out of curiosity (I agree the auto wind deflector is pretty cool), but I bought the left over 997.2 sitting beside it on the lot at 20%+ off sticker. That's the beauty of new models- it makes the only fractionally less appealing outgoing model so much cheaper to buy!
The model before the new one always has the bugs/gremlins worked out. I realize some people have to have the latest and greatest, and I appreciate that. The 997.2 is all any driver would ever need and then some, frankly.
Oh, and as for the wind deflector? I haven't even unzipped the bag in the trunk- I find you don't even need the wind deflector one thousand miles later! Let alone a price hiking auto version.
06-25-2012, 04:23 PM
#35
I wouln't buy a 1st model year vehicle- ever again. The only 2 I've ever had have been a headache, though no need for the Lemon Law, thankfully.
I drove the 991 out of curiosity (I agree the auto wind deflector is pretty cool), but I bought the left over 997.2 sitting beside it on the lot at 20%+ off sticker. That's the beauty of new models- it makes the only fractionally less appealing outgoing model so much cheaper to buy!
The model before the new one always has the bugs/gremlins worked out. I realize some people have to have the latest and greatest, and I appreciate that. The 997.2 is all any driver would ever need and then some, frankly.
Oh, and as for the wind deflector? I haven't even unzipped the bag in the trunk- I find you don't even need the wind deflector one thousand miles later! Let alone a price hiking auto version.
I drove the 991 out of curiosity (I agree the auto wind deflector is pretty cool), but I bought the left over 997.2 sitting beside it on the lot at 20%+ off sticker. That's the beauty of new models- it makes the only fractionally less appealing outgoing model so much cheaper to buy!
The model before the new one always has the bugs/gremlins worked out. I realize some people have to have the latest and greatest, and I appreciate that. The 997.2 is all any driver would ever need and then some, frankly.
Oh, and as for the wind deflector? I haven't even unzipped the bag in the trunk- I find you don't even need the wind deflector one thousand miles later! Let alone a price hiking auto version.
In general, I assume the stats favor avoiding the "version 1.0" products. Still, I buy version 1.0 products from Apple with no regrets. As I think back, there's been numerous V1.0 cars that I've wheeled off the showroom floor and had to discover as if I was walking on the moon, but mostly, they've all gone well.
I bought a version 1.0 Range Rover (first of the BMW built versions) with no drama (and that's a notoriously unreliable beast.)
Conversely, my "end of model life" 2005 Ford Excursion had all the design bugs and weaknesses of the same basic vehicle from five years prior (give or take being lucky with it mechanically, it had its fair share of "why not fix that design?" flaws ... turbo coking, sway bar drop link bushings, power steering leak, cheap and cheesy seat design, back-up sonar sensors, rear springs torque, front spring droop and short compression travel ... all should have been fixed on the drawing board of the underlying pickup ladder chassis design some 20 years prior ...)
I bought the "version 2" Benz diesel, but it simply replaced the v1.0 bugs with new weaknesses. Still a great SUV, but still, I expect more from MB.
Give or take the fuel line recall, which I'll rate as within tolerances, so far, so good -- approaching 4K miles with two drivers, ample wide open throttle driving, a couple of launches even (a first for me with PDK) and typically atrocious SF Bay Area "roads" -- I think Porsche has done well in cabin fit-and-finish with this one.
So far, knock-on-wood, the 991 is a clean copy book.
06-25-2012, 07:37 PM
#36
Race Car
+1 on 991 quality here. Mine has been outstanding so far. There is an intermittant mini rattle on certain road surfaces in the drivers side door and the dealer promised to R&R the panel whenever I want.
Re the fuel line recall: have there been actual reports of fires? Compare and contrast with the Ferrari 458.
Re the fuel line recall: have there been actual reports of fires? Compare and contrast with the Ferrari 458.
06-26-2012, 10:20 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
06-26-2012, 10:49 AM
#39
Race Car
rattle fix thank you
Wow. Great tip!
Thanks MUCH.
------
"As per some other posts these rattles also affected the front speaker quality (Bose) - to cut a long search short the culprit is the door card itself. If you open either door and tap the very front edge of the door card it will chatter and vibrate against the shell of the door - I fixed mine by inserting a folded $1 bill between the return on the door card & door itself. Rattle cured & speakers no longer affected!!"
--------
I wonder if with full leather leather I'll have to use a $5
Thanks MUCH.
------
"As per some other posts these rattles also affected the front speaker quality (Bose) - to cut a long search short the culprit is the door card itself. If you open either door and tap the very front edge of the door card it will chatter and vibrate against the shell of the door - I fixed mine by inserting a folded $1 bill between the return on the door card & door itself. Rattle cured & speakers no longer affected!!"
--------
I wonder if with full leather leather I'll have to use a $5
06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
$5, ha.
I don't have the rattle, but figured if it materializes location info could prove to be useful. I might go for something a bit more permanent than dollar bills tho. lol.
I don't have the rattle, but figured if it materializes location info could prove to be useful. I might go for something a bit more permanent than dollar bills tho. lol.
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
#41
Chuck, maybe this will save the research?
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...7-rattles.html
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...7-rattles.html
06-26-2012, 01:45 PM
#44
06-26-2012, 01:51 PM
#45
If you think that car's a lemon I'll be happy to take it off your hands at a discounted price. You bought a year one new model. Even if it's a Porsche little things can go wrong.
The trunk pops open when you wash it?? Because the key is too close?? Put key in garage. Wash car outside garage. Problem solved.
Bose speaker rattles?? It's a Bose for crying out loud- what did you expect? McIntosh? Wilson Audio? I hope you didn't buy their headphones too.
A recall that every owner experienced and that was taken care of promptly and (from the sounds of it) correctly. What's the problem?
A glove box that was replaced promptly because it rattled?
And more little rattles.....if they're really that bad- have you ever tried to find them yourself and help the mechanic fix them? Push, pull, listen and not just say "the door".
Honestly you should turn the radio off, lower the windows and enjoy the car. And go to another dealer. I bet your current Service Manager cringes when you walk in and you're not making yourself any happier either.
The trunk pops open when you wash it?? Because the key is too close?? Put key in garage. Wash car outside garage. Problem solved.
Bose speaker rattles?? It's a Bose for crying out loud- what did you expect? McIntosh? Wilson Audio? I hope you didn't buy their headphones too.
A recall that every owner experienced and that was taken care of promptly and (from the sounds of it) correctly. What's the problem?
A glove box that was replaced promptly because it rattled?
And more little rattles.....if they're really that bad- have you ever tried to find them yourself and help the mechanic fix them? Push, pull, listen and not just say "the door".
Honestly you should turn the radio off, lower the windows and enjoy the car. And go to another dealer. I bet your current Service Manager cringes when you walk in and you're not making yourself any happier either.