Multiple Quality Problems on 991
06-21-2012, 08:19 PM
#16
Race Car
Ok, An excuse to go out and wash the car! Although it never happened to me before, I can confirm that the hood popped web approached with the hose on (mild spray) with the key in my pocket! It did it once and then I couldn't make it happen again. But it did again when wiping off the water. So- I put the key on my garage workbench- about 20 ft away. Could not make it happen again with the hose or the towel. I have driven in storms (inc one with thunder) and did not have a hood pop. It would not fly up in any case as the mechanical latch is quite sturdy. I just noticed that the problem was observed with the key in the glove compartment. But I am not going out to wash the car again or my neighbors will have me committed.
I have had no problems at all with my 991. (That sound is me knocking on the wood table). But they are around for sure. The dealership where I got it has had to replace a PDK altogether and do some magic in a cabrio wind blocker that caused a non-start condition on cars not yet sold. So I fully appreciate how much a be huge bummer it must be to have bought one and then have all the aggrevation.
I have had no problems at all with my 991. (That sound is me knocking on the wood table). But they are around for sure. The dealership where I got it has had to replace a PDK altogether and do some magic in a cabrio wind blocker that caused a non-start condition on cars not yet sold. So I fully appreciate how much a be huge bummer it must be to have bought one and then have all the aggrevation.
Last edited by chuckbdc; 06-22-2012 at 11:41 AM. Reason: fat fingers
06-21-2012, 10:22 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Why not hire a kick-*** trial lawyer and be done with it? Oh, and next time you hear the big money lawsuit-abuse crap, I hope you tell them where to take it.
Sorry for the rant but I'm a Texas trial lawyer, and it's cases like yours that serve as a wake up call every now and then.
And no I'm not soliciting your business.
Sorry for the rant but I'm a Texas trial lawyer, and it's cases like yours that serve as a wake up call every now and then.
And no I'm not soliciting your business.
06-21-2012, 10:43 PM
#20
I have had various toys that proved to be a pain. Get them fixed sell them and move on. Life is short..
06-21-2012, 11:10 PM
#22
We are fortunate to have three P car dealers in Houston. I would try to go to Momentum Porsche and see the service manager Jeff Pollard. My wife and I both go their for service, give Jeff a call.
06-21-2012, 11:20 PM
#23
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Taking the key out of range of the front sensor absolutely does stop the trunk opening when the car is being washed. I do not know what the precise range of operation of the proximity sensor is, but I have tried experiments where I got as far away from the car as possible with the water hose and I would say the range is over 1m, perhaps 1.5m. Having the key in the interior (say the glove box) is potentially within this range, or very close to it.
I won't regurgitate everything I put in the letter to PCNA, but here is a brief summary of the issues on this 991: The day running LED lights were switching on and off by themselves when the car was locked and nobody was in the car. This is presumably a drain on power and certainly made my building security guard wonder about whether he was losing his mind. I was never able to establish what was happening with the lights when I was driving the car, but this could potentially be hazardous if the lights are blinking on and off and, for example, someone thought I was signaling for them to pull out in front of me. As far as I know, this only affected the day running lights. The dealer ran diagnostics and there was no fault reported on the computer. They were able to see the lights going on and off by themselves when the car was in the workshop so agreed there was a problem. They ordered a new front end control unit from Germany. The installation of this required them to recalibrate the steering settings (including the end-stop if I remember correctly) and various other functions controlled by the same unit.
I thought there was a noise coming from the dashboard and assumed there was just some loose plastic. The dealer spent hours diagnosing it and found the top of the front left strut was working itself loose due to a faulty bearing and/or nut. I am not really clear on how serious this was or what the consequences could have been, however, I do not like the idea of the front suspension working itself loose when driving.
The glove box required to be replaced as it was loose. This is not really a huge issue, but a bit aggravating to hear a continuous rattle. I just wished that I had not sold my 997.2 convertible which was beautifully rattle free! Anyway, the dealer ordered a new one and Germany sent the wrong color. They ordered a replacement in the right color but this was on back order in Germany and took around 4 weeks to arrive. I told myself to be patient and soon I would have wonderful car to drive which would be perfect.
Then there was the fuel line recall. When I got the car back from this repair it was immediately evident that there was a very loud and loose sounding rattle coming from the back. The dealer cheerfully told me the fuel line was probably just rattling and they would fix it when the glove box came in during the following few weeks. I was alarmed by this and hired a rental car the next day. This was addressed some 6 weeks later when PCNA did an inspection of the car and the master service technician advised that probably someone dislodged the rear parcel shelf when the tint was being installed. This theory was completely inaccurate since I had the car tinted and the clear bra installed on the second day I owned the car and there was no such sound from the back of the car. It seems instead that probably somewhere during the repair of this fuel line someone loosened a panel, perhaps the rear parcel shelf, although I am not sure if this is really accurate since the dealer and PCNA seem somewhat on the defense. So I am unclear if this was a safety issue, but in my opinion, definitely stemmed from the dealer botching the fuel line repair.
Also, the Bose speakers rattle a lot when the volume is raised. The dealer and PCNA tried to say this is normal, but I have owned 5 Porsches including a Cayenne GTS and 997.2, and as far as I am concerned this is not normal and very disappointing. In addition, there is a wind noise from the drivers door window seal. This was not evident on my 997.2 cab. PCNA said this was normal also when compared against other 991s. In this case I will not buy another 991. Thank you.
I talked to the dealer about all this and they offered me a miserable trade-in value, 3 weeks after I bought the car, to change for another 991. I then filled in the online customer satisfaction survey and detailed all the issues I had experience, including what I thought was very poor customer service from the dealer in addressing these issues. The next day the salesman from whom I had purchased 5 Porsches, called me to say that I had pissed off everyone at Porsche West Houston and that I should not expect any more help from the dealer. He then proceeded to spend 40 minutes on the phone patronizing me about how all cars depreciate and there was nothing they could do.
At this point my horns had grown in nicely and I decided the Lemon Law might offer some protection. This process is arduous and slow however and PCNA have so far declined to buy back the car since it was ostensibly repaired after the 4th attempt. I refuse to drive it to see what other problems there might be and would really just prefer to have the memory of all this deleted from my otherwise happy Porsche owning experience. But PCNA do not seem willing to facilitate that.
I won't regurgitate everything I put in the letter to PCNA, but here is a brief summary of the issues on this 991: The day running LED lights were switching on and off by themselves when the car was locked and nobody was in the car. This is presumably a drain on power and certainly made my building security guard wonder about whether he was losing his mind. I was never able to establish what was happening with the lights when I was driving the car, but this could potentially be hazardous if the lights are blinking on and off and, for example, someone thought I was signaling for them to pull out in front of me. As far as I know, this only affected the day running lights. The dealer ran diagnostics and there was no fault reported on the computer. They were able to see the lights going on and off by themselves when the car was in the workshop so agreed there was a problem. They ordered a new front end control unit from Germany. The installation of this required them to recalibrate the steering settings (including the end-stop if I remember correctly) and various other functions controlled by the same unit.
I thought there was a noise coming from the dashboard and assumed there was just some loose plastic. The dealer spent hours diagnosing it and found the top of the front left strut was working itself loose due to a faulty bearing and/or nut. I am not really clear on how serious this was or what the consequences could have been, however, I do not like the idea of the front suspension working itself loose when driving.
The glove box required to be replaced as it was loose. This is not really a huge issue, but a bit aggravating to hear a continuous rattle. I just wished that I had not sold my 997.2 convertible which was beautifully rattle free! Anyway, the dealer ordered a new one and Germany sent the wrong color. They ordered a replacement in the right color but this was on back order in Germany and took around 4 weeks to arrive. I told myself to be patient and soon I would have wonderful car to drive which would be perfect.
Then there was the fuel line recall. When I got the car back from this repair it was immediately evident that there was a very loud and loose sounding rattle coming from the back. The dealer cheerfully told me the fuel line was probably just rattling and they would fix it when the glove box came in during the following few weeks. I was alarmed by this and hired a rental car the next day. This was addressed some 6 weeks later when PCNA did an inspection of the car and the master service technician advised that probably someone dislodged the rear parcel shelf when the tint was being installed. This theory was completely inaccurate since I had the car tinted and the clear bra installed on the second day I owned the car and there was no such sound from the back of the car. It seems instead that probably somewhere during the repair of this fuel line someone loosened a panel, perhaps the rear parcel shelf, although I am not sure if this is really accurate since the dealer and PCNA seem somewhat on the defense. So I am unclear if this was a safety issue, but in my opinion, definitely stemmed from the dealer botching the fuel line repair.
Also, the Bose speakers rattle a lot when the volume is raised. The dealer and PCNA tried to say this is normal, but I have owned 5 Porsches including a Cayenne GTS and 997.2, and as far as I am concerned this is not normal and very disappointing. In addition, there is a wind noise from the drivers door window seal. This was not evident on my 997.2 cab. PCNA said this was normal also when compared against other 991s. In this case I will not buy another 991. Thank you.
I talked to the dealer about all this and they offered me a miserable trade-in value, 3 weeks after I bought the car, to change for another 991. I then filled in the online customer satisfaction survey and detailed all the issues I had experience, including what I thought was very poor customer service from the dealer in addressing these issues. The next day the salesman from whom I had purchased 5 Porsches, called me to say that I had pissed off everyone at Porsche West Houston and that I should not expect any more help from the dealer. He then proceeded to spend 40 minutes on the phone patronizing me about how all cars depreciate and there was nothing they could do.
At this point my horns had grown in nicely and I decided the Lemon Law might offer some protection. This process is arduous and slow however and PCNA have so far declined to buy back the car since it was ostensibly repaired after the 4th attempt. I refuse to drive it to see what other problems there might be and would really just prefer to have the memory of all this deleted from my otherwise happy Porsche owning experience. But PCNA do not seem willing to facilitate that.
New car, new problems, service people trying to figure out the new stuff. It's a recipe for frustration. You can dump the car, or work through it.
As for the trunk/wash thing. BMW had the exact same problem when they first came out with keyless start/entry. The solution was to leave the key in the car or the house. It's a little surprising Porsche didn't learn from this.
I take it your situation doesn't allow this. I assume you have a valet key that takes keyless out of the picture. Use it when you go to wash the car.
If the other problems are solved then accept the minor annoyance and enjoy the car.
06-22-2012, 01:58 AM
#24
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No offense, well maybe some, but you're being kind of a douche. The hood pop issue is your own fault. Walk 10' and put the keys down. Problem solved. Everything else is minor and life's too short. You don't win lemon law cases for rattles. You win them for repeated safety hazards which you haven't had. If you are acting like this on a forum, I can only imagine how you act at the dealer.
The car has a warranty for a reason, but you aren't willing to let it work. You just want what you want even though you know these things aren't made by God, they are made by men. When God starts making cars, then you can bitch about them not being perfect. Porsche just came out right near the top of the JD Power list and they still average close to 1 problem per car in the first 90 days. So have some realistic expectations and maybe you'll live a bit longer.
Be glad you are fortunate to own so many fine cars instead of driving a Chevy Cruz that has the steering wheel come off in your hands at 60 mph. Then maybe you would have something to bitch about.
The car has a warranty for a reason, but you aren't willing to let it work. You just want what you want even though you know these things aren't made by God, they are made by men. When God starts making cars, then you can bitch about them not being perfect. Porsche just came out right near the top of the JD Power list and they still average close to 1 problem per car in the first 90 days. So have some realistic expectations and maybe you'll live a bit longer.
Be glad you are fortunate to own so many fine cars instead of driving a Chevy Cruz that has the steering wheel come off in your hands at 60 mph. Then maybe you would have something to bitch about.
06-22-2012, 02:45 PM
#25
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Rushman71, there is definitely the potential to start acting like a douch in such a situation. I do not believe I have done anything in this case to warrant such a label. The purpose of this posting was to let people know that the car I bought was sub-par and the customer service I have received was also sub-par. I think this is a perfectly reasonable statement considering all the issues I have encountered (and I have not listed them all here - one very disturbing issue not mentioned here before was that the car had minor paint damage in various locations when I first bought the car from dealer).
I work in professional environment and feel I have a good understanding of expected behavior. I have been nothing but polite to the dealer, PCNA and on this board. It was the dealer that called and told me everyone was pissed off after I filled in the online customer satisfaction survey. What exactly is the purpose of a customer satisfaction survey? I don't find this particularly professional. In terms of the hood opening issue, this is a design flaw. I live in a condo and do not wash my car at home. I am not going to give my key to the guy in the next wash bay or leave it in the car so someone can drive off with it. i do not think this is being a douch. My circumstances are such that this is a problem.
I am very blessed to be able to buy very nice cars. I work hard for the privilege. I don't have time to deal with all these issues. I was under the impression that I bought a completed car, not a project. I do not think the product I purchased or the customer service I have experienced were at the standard expected or required and I have right to share this information. I sincerely hope that people will think twice about buying cars from Porsche West Houston. I also hope that Porsche will work on the various quality issues that were evident to me in this car.
For the record, I am a huge fan of Porsche and am aware that these cars are not made by God, thank you. I am quite disappointed by my recent experience and think I have a reasonable basis for this. I won't say more on this topic. Life certainly is too short and this will be resolved one way or another.
I work in professional environment and feel I have a good understanding of expected behavior. I have been nothing but polite to the dealer, PCNA and on this board. It was the dealer that called and told me everyone was pissed off after I filled in the online customer satisfaction survey. What exactly is the purpose of a customer satisfaction survey? I don't find this particularly professional. In terms of the hood opening issue, this is a design flaw. I live in a condo and do not wash my car at home. I am not going to give my key to the guy in the next wash bay or leave it in the car so someone can drive off with it. i do not think this is being a douch. My circumstances are such that this is a problem.
I am very blessed to be able to buy very nice cars. I work hard for the privilege. I don't have time to deal with all these issues. I was under the impression that I bought a completed car, not a project. I do not think the product I purchased or the customer service I have experienced were at the standard expected or required and I have right to share this information. I sincerely hope that people will think twice about buying cars from Porsche West Houston. I also hope that Porsche will work on the various quality issues that were evident to me in this car.
For the record, I am a huge fan of Porsche and am aware that these cars are not made by God, thank you. I am quite disappointed by my recent experience and think I have a reasonable basis for this. I won't say more on this topic. Life certainly is too short and this will be resolved one way or another.
06-22-2012, 03:52 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Actually, the 991 has a pittance of flaws, so I am ecstatic that "God" didn't make my 991! If He did, the Vatican wouldn't have enough lawyers to cover all the lemon law suites.
06-22-2012, 04:58 PM
#28
Houston_991,
I have purchased cars at both Porsche West and Momentum and I find neither to be solid when it comes to service. I have had some conversations with some of the guys at Porsche North and it appears that they may be getting my service business in the future. I live in far south Houston and they in North Houston near the Woodlands so it would be a long drive for me. However, I have heard some very good things about them and suggest you investigate whether you think they may be able to service your needs. Porsche West is hurting and has really fell of the list of consideration for any new purchases from me.
You can call then and speak to them on the phone to get a feel if they may be able to help out. They are not as busy as Momentum and should be able to speak with you about the issue.
I would attempt to resolve the issue with another dealer before going to the extent of getting a lawyer. People always want to go for the lawyer before exhausting all resources locally.
I have purchased cars at both Porsche West and Momentum and I find neither to be solid when it comes to service. I have had some conversations with some of the guys at Porsche North and it appears that they may be getting my service business in the future. I live in far south Houston and they in North Houston near the Woodlands so it would be a long drive for me. However, I have heard some very good things about them and suggest you investigate whether you think they may be able to service your needs. Porsche West is hurting and has really fell of the list of consideration for any new purchases from me.
You can call then and speak to them on the phone to get a feel if they may be able to help out. They are not as busy as Momentum and should be able to speak with you about the issue.
I would attempt to resolve the issue with another dealer before going to the extent of getting a lawyer. People always want to go for the lawyer before exhausting all resources locally.
06-23-2012, 09:51 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
As a Feb purchase, wondering if you would post the last 4 digits of the serial. (mine completed end of May to be delivered this week is in the low 2300's)
Wondering if we can identify problem cars by using serial numbers. Lets just say we find that cars with numbers 1001 to 1025 all had similar problems. This would give the owners so much more negotiating power with dealers and PCNA.
Wondering if we can identify problem cars by using serial numbers. Lets just say we find that cars with numbers 1001 to 1025 all had similar problems. This would give the owners so much more negotiating power with dealers and PCNA.
06-23-2012, 10:29 PM
#30
Racer
I am a service manager of a BMW dealer. BMW handles their buy backs in house and eliminates the need for an attorney.
The reason why the dealer is pissed about the survey is because if affects their pay, understand you point of this is what the survey is for ....they look at it as they did not create
The quality problems with your car. BMW customers think a BMW is a pair of shoes. Wear them for a while and then return them to the store for your money back...not
Porsche will not take your 991 back, here is what you could get,
1-ask for a payment or 2
2-ask for a warranty extension
3-ask for a trade assist ( difference in trade in to new car )
4-contact BBB and open case
5-switch dealer and start over. Meet with the service manager, bring a good bottle of wine
For taking on your case.
The reason why the dealer is pissed about the survey is because if affects their pay, understand you point of this is what the survey is for ....they look at it as they did not create
The quality problems with your car. BMW customers think a BMW is a pair of shoes. Wear them for a while and then return them to the store for your money back...not
Porsche will not take your 991 back, here is what you could get,
1-ask for a payment or 2
2-ask for a warranty extension
3-ask for a trade assist ( difference in trade in to new car )
4-contact BBB and open case
5-switch dealer and start over. Meet with the service manager, bring a good bottle of wine
For taking on your case.