BGB Motorsports

Guys and Gals,

Given the acceptable and generous amount of power/torque that PCNA has delivered to the street in the new 991 Carrera S, it's not that shy of what most 997.1 GT3s came with in the boot. Several of the mods that we have developed for the Grand-Am 997.2 Carrera GTS X51 engine will bolt-onto this car. My question to the general public is, with the perceived 15 month wait for the GT3, what sort of stuff would you want on a 991 in the form of bolt-ons? In addition to a DME flash for race gas and a pulley kit to work with AND without A/C (the WITH A/C pulley is a prototype but it's going on the 991 this week), what matters most to you guys? Is it the sound of the GT3? Is it the two-piece control arms and suspension that are more tunable? Handling? It will be a short while before control arms are made from people like RSS, PMNA and Tarret but if the new factory 991 lower control arms provide sufficient track-level camber, do you guys care if it's a 1-piece arm with rigid bushings able to achieve 3.0 degrees in the front and 2.5 degrees in the rear?

I know that for the last 10 years, the GT3 vs. 997.2 competition has been about Metzger vs. 9A1 and Metzger vs. M96 but is the power close enough that some of you would be happy with a 991S 1.5 years early if it the car in base form already makes its way around a race track as fast as the 997.2 GT3? If it had more power, louder exhaust and bolt-ons, would the market be able to bear a zero-hour brand new $120K 991 that had an ECU flash, pulley kit, headers, delrin suspension bushings and aftermarket sway bars?

I'm just trying to get a feel. Our “Daytona Special” Caymans that are essentially Cayman Rs with 35 more horsepower and track day level builds have been well received but the Cayman buyer and the 911 buyer play in different sandboxes. We know what the Cayman buyers want for their Caymans but educate me please. Please share your thoughts, as they are all welcome.

Maybe i should have asked, "if you're waiting for a 991 GT3, what's the single biggest reason why?"

We are going to start bolting stuff to this new 7-speed 991 we just picked up as an attempt to ascertain its viability as next year’s Grand-Am 911. In the meantime though, I have gotten inquiries about doing a few more and I need to know what the General Public wants.

Thanks.

John Tecce
BGB Motorsports

911Jetta

Great question! I'm not qualified to answer (just a 964 owner), but I happy teams like you might be racing the 991 in Grand Am soon. Porsche is taking way too long to get the 991 on the track. Will we have to wait until 2014 to see a 991 in AMLS?

fbroen

Great thread.

I don't think you mean aero stuff, but the first things I'd like to add is a GT3 style black front lip -- one that runs wheel well to wheel well. And air intrake mesh grills.

BGB Motorsports

I forgot aero! You raise a great point. Honestly, given that the GT3 has always had an aero kit, it should be at the top of the list. I think that unless we could get an actual version of that wing, the wing that Porsche Motorsport finally slaps on the actual 991 GT3 for production by Porsche AG, it might be a bit hokey or would feel a bit hokey. No?

alexb76

What are some mods that you develope for "997.2 Carrera GTS X51"?

alexb76

What are some mods that you developed for "997.2 Carrera GTS X51"?

I also think 991, being more GT, more electronics, having a much harder maintenance procedures (air filter/oil/pads as an example) is not as track friendly and has been targetted differently than past 911s, and may not be as desired as 991 GT3 which hopefully will be more track-friendly for track oriented folks.

I for one, as a 997 owner, will NOT buy a 991 for track, and am waiting for GT3 to see if it more track-friendly.

Actual owners here may have a different answer, but from what I've seen in track circles around Pacific Northwest, no one is going out there to buy a 991 for track. Everyone's upgrade path is GT3, or adding GT3 parts to their 997. We had a 991 owner who attended our last track event, but he was a casual non-mod kinda owner and only did 3-4 laps in one session.

Carrera GT

Sounds like you've got a good handle on the things people might pay to do. I don't understand the pulley kit reference.

Here's a quick nose-to-tail bullet point list of thoughts, some generic, some 991 specific, just a general laundry list of things I'd like to do to add lightness and remove the factory electronic garbage -- you might call that "add analog" or delete digital.

front bumper aero -- remove the Carrera air dam and duct through a GT3-esque vent over the frunk
deep ***** splitter
canards
front wheel well spoilers
headlight blanks
headlight washer system delete
frunk weight reduction (lots of stamped mild steel in there)
lightweight battery, relocated lower or situated "flat"
slotted brake rotors
braided flexible brake lines to the calipers
lightweight lug bolts
pasm delete (coilovers)
adjustable (blade?) sways ... cabin adjustable?
tie rod drop links
tie toe control arms front and rear (delete eccentrics in rear)
bump steer kit
shimmed camber
threaded tower camber plate
reprogram steering for lighter feel, uninhibited feedback
replace steering box with something that provides feel and feedback
fixed position paddle shifters on the steering column
center console / PDK shifter delete (put the reverse actuator on the dash or the floor on its own)
nice to have would be backup camera tied into PCM display
light/small door mirrors
door trim delete to something like early "RS" skins
bolt-in cage or half cage
lightweight seat sliders
rear seat delete and carpet
wind deflector to suppress cabin buffeting
OBD port data acquisition of sport chrono, G meter, other systems (steering angle, pedal position and pressure, transmission, PSM interventions, PTV, PDCC events)
DOT lightweight glass all round, especially rear window, but with some sort of "blow out" prevention (since it's a problem)
expose engine with a lift-off decklid that's a 997.2 RS (like) ducted forced air intake scoop
adjustable bolt-on/easy-off wing like .2 RS (using 4.0 RS as guide for aero)
rear diffuser
delete exhaust system, central twin pipe exit up high
Guard LSD mated to PDK box?
PTV override
PDCC delete/override paired to blade sways
higher power of course (say 450 horse)
much higher red line (say 8500 or whatever the con rods etc. internals can endure)


It won't be easy because of the electronics, but the steering is the Achille's -- anyone in the aftermarket that solves the steering feel/feedback for the 991 will have drivers swiping the plastic.

DrJay

Carrera, I think you just need to buy an RS.

GermanCarSpecialists

precisely what I thought reading through half of the list!

One thing I fear; yes, bringing 991S to 997.1 GT3 performance levels is quite not challenging however how far would it stand from the forthcoming GT3 based on money and time investment.

alexb76

or a Carrera GT!

ThatOneGuy

I would like to see 'modern' Fuch wheels as an option to go along with the Sport Design package.

BGB Motorsports

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. Man, that is one long list. For the current 997.2 X51 cars, we have an ECU fule, revised airbox, headers and exhaust from FVD and we have been running the RSS DFI pulley kit that we developed for RSS. At the end of the day though, pulleys are probably for the heavy DE/racing types.

We use the standard bolt-ons but things that are proprietary to our program are the ECU flash, the pulley kit and some modifications that we have done to the factory airbox; this box from Porsche is already excellent and while bigger filters and tubes can be added, the factory setup does the best at sealing and keeping the intake air fresh.

As for RPM levels, while the X51 GTS 997.2 is set to 7500, we have run as high as 8200RPM with these motors in an endurance racing environment. Going higher is not suggested and has NOT been tested.

Carrera GT

By "fule" I guess you mean "file."
It would be great for Porsche to specify the limits or specs of the internals. I think 8000 would be useful and a I agree that much over 8200 and those rods might complain about the load.
There's also been comments at the factory about PDK not liking higher rpm.
I'm not clear on the pulley kit -- it's an under-drive for the alternator?
You'll see things like the stamped steel cross brace under the engine of the 991 -- that and other bits of metal around the car will presumably be replaced with an alloy piece in the GT3, but assuming that's a year or more away, it would be great to have a box full of parts to swap out of the car to shed weight in the S.

robbie9999

I am new to the forum, and I am in the market for a 7 speed 991 Carrera S (can't afford turbo, and it doesn't come stick) some questions if anyone knows:

1. Is there Power modifications of the market now that will give significant reliable safe power gains for torque and horsepower? My understanding is mapping or reconfiguring the

2. Can the rear brake vents in Turbo' s be put into Carrera S body?

3. What is the power to the wheels ? stock

Boostu

According to C&D's Lightning Lap at VIR the 991 C2S is already faster than the 997.1 GT3 by about 3 seconds. Does that not line up with real world results?

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2014-feature

32 2:58.9 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA S LL3 2/13
47 3:01.8 PORSCHE 911 GT3 LL3 8/07