Carrera GT

I find the 991S with the sport exhaust sounds great up to about 50, then the cabin buffeting starts to come in and it's enough for my passengers to say "enough." I think the 991 will need something like a cabrio wind-stop. It's really intolerable at speed and that's a pity -- it's quite fun to blast around the mountains and hear the exhaust echoing off the hillside ... and I mean _the exhaust_ ... not the "symposer" inside the cabin. I guess it's okay that they at least work with the real engine, not some electronic recording of what you might hear if the whole engine wasn't one giant emissions regulation Rube Goldberg contraption.

Carcam

I had that same hesitation with my M3 and Cayenne Turbo and hated it but have not had it with my 991S pdk. When I test drove it, that was The One thing that would have turned me off to it. Maybe it is software programming. I dunno. As for buffeting, no problem there either because I rarely drive with the windows down. I hate the wind noise and that's why I don't have a cab. I do like the sunroof though and find it much better then the one on the 997. Maybe I'm not driving it hard enough?

alexb76

Could it be some Porsche engineering to save fuel? Like not to rush fuel delivery during standstill-roll situations,where they *thought* people wouldn't wanna slam, and 991 provides a smoother drive away hence lower fuel consumption? vs. 997?

SSST

So was it one of you tried to take me at the light on 360 in Austin today? Black 991S testing his launch control.

PSE sounde great at the line. Didn't hear it after than.

Carrera GT

You might have to cast a wider net to have a chance of reaching the other driver.

Launch control from a traffic light sounds more like a dealer employee (recent scandal with a new, unsold, AMG Benz getting thrashed.)

As for drag racing, the 996 Turbo is slower to 60 than the 991S, give or take a 1/10th. I imagine the Cab is heavier and a tad slower. Unless you've modified the car and decided to make the car work hard, it would not have been easy for the turbo to stay in touch with the rear bumper of the PDK car (997 or 991) let alone be ahead of it off the line.

The PDK car can be driven to its peak performance with just a heavy right foot and side-slip the brake pedal. It's not easy to get a perfect launch in a turbo at the best of times, so getting under say 4.0 seconds and whatever 60 ft time -- which would favor the PDK because the turbo is still building power -- is just not going to happen.

draxa

It's page three of this thread and nobody has mentioned the glaringly obvious; compared to the out-going engine, the torque figure is almost the same but.......
997 max torque @ 4600rpm
991 max torque @ 5600rpm

That 1200rpm difference represents a HUGE difference in 'drivability', enormous!

I drove a 991S the other day and went there expecting to bitch about steering; but hardly registered that after five minutes. However, the single thing that kept me from signing an order right there was this new engine.

I'm sure this hi-rev torque is terrific on the few occasions when you're really driving with brio, but, for the other (maybe 95%of the time) day-to-day driving that 'hole' down below 5500rpm is discernable every single time you flex your right foot. More so coming from a 997 which could be idled about in 6th.

I loved so much about the 991S, really loved it; but the engine.....mmmm, I dunno, maybe I have to drive it a bit more before I sign.

WCE

Dumping the throttle from a standing start is the toughest thing for the PDK to handle. While the clutch is always slipping, it is just slightly engaged so the engine can rev first and dump the clutch second. That's why launch control allows you to build revs before you are actually ready to move off the line, just like you would when driving a manual. The car actually feels quicker moving off at less than full throttle where the clutch engages more quickly, and then going to full throttle as soon as the clutch is fully engaged.
That said, I have found my base Carrera a little soft even at full throttle when under 6000 rpm. Only first gear and 6k on the clock seem truly fast to me. Certainly there's always adequate power, just nothing that feels like it's going to get me into trouble too quick (maybe that's a good thing). In fact with the now louder base exhaust, there frequently seems to be a lot of bellowing going on for a rather leisurely acceleration result - think Clarkson testing that first AMV8 on the Isle of Man.
Still like the car, just might not be a keeper...or maybe I should have gotten an S!

Carrera GT

I had the 997.2 PDK and now the 991 (.1?) PDK and I don't experience the "off the torque curve" feeling. If someone has dyno charts for 997.2 S vs 991 S vs maybe 997.2 GTS (aka X51?) the visuals would illustrate the relative difference. As ever with PDK, it's two gears too high in any given situation, so throttle response relies upon a downshift (or four.)

I'm very happy with the power train, not so happy with the "ringing in the ears" cabin noise levels (engine itself as well as NVH) but generally find the car exhilarating and entertaining, yet far more civilized and livable than the 997.2 3.8 RS, which is a track car first and a distant second as a road car.

Porsche has their work cut out for them when it comes to building the 991.2.
I don't think they "got it right" with this "version 1.0" product. I wonder if the obvious shortcomings of the 991.1 explain why the other versions of the car are further away than expected (AWD and wide body, turbo, targa, etc.) I think the most interesting 911 on the market is the 997 GTS4 ...

rome

Need 2 be in Sport Mode

SSST

It's not a stock 996tt. Its setup to build power early. He did edge me at the line, but I caught him at about 5000 rpm in second. It was over at that point.

I wasn't going to race, but the when the opposite light turned yellow and I heard his engine wind up I decided what the heck. Dumped the clutch at 4000 and let it go.

Don't think it was a dealer car since it had permanent plates and the guy driving was my age and wearing a tie.

Surprisingly fast for a NA 6. I was impressed. It would take a stock 996tt. No argument there.

hockeyguy

I must say that this thread is making me pause in making the leap from my 997.2 C2S pdk to the 991. I love my C2S. It's my DD, and I put over 20kfor miles a year on it. Two of the most important aspects to me are the great steering feel, and the decent low-end torque--both of which are questioned here.
As my DD, I don't want to always have to push my car hard....it gets tiresome.
That being said, I did test drive one....it is a great car. The pdk especially is far superior, and I loved the PDCC.

Carrera GT

I don't know that I'm sharing your positive thoughts about PDCC. I have it on my car and it's a mixed bag. Hard to say what's the car and what's the programming of the sway bars, but there's some peculiar things going on back there (as the actress said to the bishop.)

As for PDK, I know it's superior for performance, but much the same for road driving. If you plan on tracking and want outright lap times, that's one thing, but for everything you can do on the road, I'm not finding the 991 iteration of PDK to hold any trumps.

As for mid-range torque, throttle response, throttle tip in (the initial movement from zero throttle position, whether the car is moving or not) I've spent some concerted time trying to isolate any peculiar behavior, but I don't find the 991 to bring any new shortcomings that aren't already in the 997.2 PDK (I had in my daily driver prior to this 991.)

Finally, from the driving you describe, I'd encourage you to drive the 997 GTS and take a good, long run in it, preferably back-to-back comparison with the 991. From the sounds of your driving, you're going to appreciate the GTS and you're not going to give too much credit to the "new model" cachet (however short-lived) of the 991, but if you're even approaching 20K miles per year, you're going to get slaughtered on resale value of the 991, especially since you can drive a hard bargain on updating to the GTS today.

I'm looking for a second daily driver (since my wife all too often absconds with "my" 991 ... she's concluded upon preferring it to the outgoing 997.2 C4S PDK Cabrio.) Rather than two near-identical cars (say a 991 C4S Targa to go alongside this 991S) I'm quite seriously leaning towards the 997.2 GTS 4.

To try to add some perspective to that comparison, I'd say that if I didn't have the 991S or if I was going to dispose of the 991S, I'd very likely take the 991C4S over the 997 GTS 4 -- it's only already having a 991 in the garage that tips the balance for me. That's with the proviso that when I come to driving it, I decide the "plus" steering to be more appealing than the normal 991 steering I've got at the moment, which I suspect you might find wearisome. So again, just in terms of the driving of it, I'd encourage you to take a half hour or more in a 991 demo and fully acquaint yourself with it.

The grass on the other side of the new fence is not always greener.

hockeyguy

Thanks for your reply. The 997.2 GTS is indeed a great car, but is too close to my 997.2 C2S to be worth the trade for me (I've modded my C2S some-- exhaust, etc.-- to be somewhat comparable to the GTS anyway).

My thinking is that I'll hold onto my current C2S for awhile and see how the 991 develops (Turbo, or maybe 991.2?). Also, the trade-in value on my car stinks because I was involved in a collision.... Oddly, having an accident was liberating!!-- now I don't worry about re-sale value, every scratch, or where I park it, etc...I'm not sure I wanna start obsessing again about my new $100K+ car!

I know this sounds blasphemous here, but, with the new 991 more mid-engined and balanced, what will distinguish it from the new Cayman?-- the 991'
s extra horsepower that, according to some, is weak on low-end torque? I've seen spy photos of the new Boxter/Cayman. They're stunning. So I think I'll wait until the new Cayman S comes out next year and add it to the mix too in my next car choice.....

Betternotbigger

Can you elaborate, please, on what you say about the PDCC?

SSST

I think the issue some have with PDCC and even PSM is that the electronic nannies are a double edge sword. The can make an average to slightly above average driver (I am one of those) better, but can get in the way for a really good driver who wants to feel what the car is doing without interference from the electronics.

I would probably opt for it, but can understand why some wouldn't want it.