mdrums

1- you don't have to remove the rear bumper for an oil change.

2- the steering didn't seem bad at all just driving around on the street.

I got to drive a 991s around my neighborhood roads and highway. To me the Carrera 991 is probably what Porsche customers are looking for. It's more comfortable, plush, easy to drive, quieter, and a all around better everyday street car than the outgoing 997 version.

TSpyder

I heard this rumor as well so I checked with the service mngr at my dealer and he called over a tech. The bumper indeed does not have to be removed, just the panel on top where the oil filter then becomes accessible. Good news for me as I generally like to perform basic maintenance, including brakes, myself.

Spyder

Frissen

I was amazed on how efficency (PDK, engine mount, sway bars and all the PTTV and such, less weight, etc) made the 991 so fast, easy to drive in a fun, fun package that on top of all offers comfort beyond believe.

To me negative side of things come directly from Porsche and being sales oriented and NOT service oriented, now they are bringing the Macan but are they increasing the number of engine bays? are they doing something about the now astronomical cost of service? are they being more efficient to make the ownership experience any better?

The product is fine, reason why it sells like it does but the service and parts side of things is not all that good as of yet imo, what do you guys think?

destaccado

I think you skipped over quite a few negatives in making your point.

Electric steering. If I can afford a $90,000+ car I can afford .1mpg less in gasoline. The steering was one of the highlights of the 911 and now it's just an 'any other car' system.

Less sports car more GT. The 991 is as close to being a Panamera coupe as it is a 911 successor. Is this a good thing? I don't think so...

Exterior styling. While there are some positives to the styling and this is all opinion - they definitely missed the mark in my view. I do prefer it to a 997 or 996 C2 but the back end with that big slope where they put the paragraph on what type of car it is just looks horrible.

Navigation and interior styling. The LCD screen and the rest of the interior will look extremely dated in about 5 years. Look how dated the 996 and 997.1 screens and interiors are looking already. The 991 will never be a collector car because it clearly wasn't styled with a timeless design. See modern 8-cyl Ferraris or the 993 for an example of how quality materials and minimalist designs age the best.

Power. Although this argument has been going on forever. 350hp for a $90,000 C2 is really quite pathetic and I have no doubt the power gap is currently bigger than it's ever been before with $55,000 Mustangs putting out 650hp. The base car should have had close to 400hp with the S putting out something higher.

7-speed transmission. Again - if you can afford the car you can afford the gas.

The 991 is now a GT car with sports car features -- prior to this generation it was always the other way around. Considering you can walk right into a dealer and place an order for a 991 I don't think the public reception of the 991 has been that stellar - there's a lot more competition in this price range in the GT category...

My favorite item though is how people cast off the opinions of 997 owners. Perhaps 997 owners simply wanted the 991 to be a better sports car / driver's car -- which in my opinion, it's not...

Of Note: I don't own a 997 and I went to the Frankfurt IAA to see the unveiling of the 991 intending on making it my first 911 as for the first time in my life I can afford one - I've reconsidered.

neanicu

One of the main reasons Porsche went for the electric steering is because of new regulations,which every year become tougher and tougher. And here I'm referring to all manufacturers. IMO the main concern today in the auto industry is finding new technologies,new ways to reduce weight,reduce engine sizes,reduce CO2 levels etc,but not sacrifice power. The electric steering is much lighter and if it can help reduce the overall fuel consumption,then they've decided to do it. Porsche didn't do it so it can save you a gallon.
In terms of power,if you consider the car is much lighter,there is plenty.
Exterior styling. Most people love it,but when it comes to that it's a matter of opinion.
IMO the interior has been brought up to date with the 991.

destaccado

The reason for the new steering really doesn't matter although I'm sure you make a valid point. To put it quite simply the 991 houses an inferior steering system to previous model 911s which have rather legendary steering. I prefer the steering in a lowly base 997 C2 to a 458 Italia at least on the street where I've driven both. I've heard a lot of excuses made for the 991 EPS but I've yet to hear someone call it "better"...

"Exterior styling. Most people love it,but when it comes to that it's a matter of opinion."
- I'm not sure where you're getting this information but I haven't found it to be the case. If people loved it I think it would be selling better...

"In terms of power,if you consider the car is much lighter,there is plenty."
- Except the car isn't much lighter. Porsche adds all the options that are necessary for the 991 to achieve its best time on the ring' and then claims the 991 is faster yet at the same time removes these options to claim the car is lighter. Plenty of hp is also subjective. I find the C2 to be extremely anemic in power for a $90,000 sports car.

I agree the interior is more modern - but tacky modern with cheap plastic switches and a gaudy LCD (although I have the same criticism of every 911 since the 993)

TommyV44

Funny....maybe I'm getting old and forgetful (definitely a possibility) but I don't remember any of these discussions happening when they introduced the 997 and again I'm not suggesting in any way that it's better than the 991....I just like it way better.

I think we'd certainly have to say that the 991 is a bit (or a lot controversial) and if I'm Porsche that would concern me. Especially when so may long term customers mostly feel that way. The new customers seem to like it but the loyal ones that have been with Porsche for 10 & 20 years are the ones that are reluctant and not so enthusiastic.

I for one am so sorry that this is the case for me as I'm only a Porsche 911 owner for 13 years....I wanted to love this car and fully expected to. It's my only car and my DD and I have to say every time I look at it I'm excited and thankful that it's mine.....nothing can replace those small pleasures and thrills that I can't put words around but you guys certainly understand.

To think that it's going to be another 7 years before this design changes (and I have no positive thoughts that it'll be for the better) is very discouraging.

But hey, my car is only a small part of what I consider a very fortunate life but it's still a part of the whole package for me.

For whatever reason ($$$$ I'm sure) I believe Porsche made a wrong turn here and I'm disappointed they did.

mikegee

Ah..you know.. I rarely get caught up in these pissing matches about who's car is whatever. I have a supercharged honda s2000 that is lighter faster and cheaper than all the porsches I have driven or owned.
But that's not the point, is it? You buy a ride, you like it, you keep it or like me keep it a awhile and get another. I have liked and hated many more porsches than are in my signature.
I have ordered a 2012 cab. I may like it. I liked the coupe i drove. Will I love it? I dunno.

But what I do know is that BETTER THAN is a very subjective phrase. For every point there is a counterpoint.

The REAL problem in buying cars like these is US, the buyer. We are all pretty much self motivated, objective driven, perfectionistic folks. We spend more time picking out a car and options, whether new or used, than most people keep a car, only to be disappointed by it in someway and begin to plan for the next.

I mean...really.

doc_porsche

So tell us how you really feel?

Carrera GT

Keep in mind that electric steering and electric AC and things like "sail" mode (coasting downhill in neutral with engine at idle rpm) and auto-stop and 7th gear are all related to government mandated fuel efficiency and emissions measurements. The same is true for the bumper designs, door thickness, steering column, passenger cell, foot boxes, you name it.

As for the 991 itself, it bears no resemblance and zero in common with a Panamera two-door or whatever comes next (and soon.) The cabin is a shared design with all Porsches now. Love it or loathe it, it's neither here nor there for the driving of the car, so I rate it as "passable." I'd still call for all those Nokia cell phone buttons with their shiny painted silver plastic to be ripped out and used in a "will it blend" video.

In terms of driving, I'm still "out" (as in, the jury is out) on handling. The engine is fun, throttle response is sharp and energetic. The brakes are ample for the street and the car is nicely balanced. The new sport seat is very much like the 993 Sport seat -- adequate bolsters, easily adjusted to a good ergo driving position. Road and engine noise (NVH) are still too high, especially given the claims of refinement. All controls are well arranged. Dash is unimproved since 2005. Controls are plastic junk (indicators, wipers) and I'd much rather the entire center console be deleted down to the carpet on the transmission tunnel, pull the seats four inches closer together and make the car four inches narrower and lighter for it. There should be a straight knee bar from A pillar to A pillar -- that's the signature of the 911 cabin design. The useless PDK shifter is an inch too high and serves no purpose other than as a somewhat inconveniently too high wrist rest while trying to decipher the layers of menus to do simple things that should all be as simple as an iPod. Still, I'm happy with the 2009 navigation system since it has live traffic and is smart about rerouting and diverting to side roads. Real time saver (after 10K on the road in the previous model, I know it's worth having even though maps.google.com on Android 4.0 is (far) better, it's not as convenient as in-dash.) The electronics are unimproved since circa 2009 Porsche or equivalent to a 2005 Toyota. Things like the iPhone/iPod interface are brain-dead. Accessing other electronics (Android) is non-existant. Accessing media on an SD is via USB and without any use of the touch screen as a UI. Porsche (or VW) continue to "phone it in" like a disinterested employee or a flunky student wanting just passing grades to not actually get thrown out.

But. The steering is junk. Woeful. Hideous. Loathsome. It must go. I haven't had enough time in a car with "plus" steering, but that's the next step for me. The current car with the normal steering just isn't good enough by any stretch. It's dull, unresponsive, dull and dreary. The steering makes the whole car disappointing. Porsche will replace the steering in the 991.2 and I think there will be a market for either "plus" upgrades or an entirely replaced steering box for 991 drivers. Whatever comes in the GT3 better be completely different and far superior. I'd say just going back to the 997.2 will be fine, but going to the Cup (electric over hydraulic pump) would be better, if do-able. I'm sure Porsche has grand plans for the electric steering to do more than wiggle as stability intervenes or twitch when ABS needs steering to correct rotation, but whatever the gadget intentions, it has to happen on real steering, not this electric ****.

911SLOW

Adam thanks,

Since I am living the 991 experience vicariously through you, I was eagerly waiting for your first impressions on the new steering.

I think I am going home to open that Bollinger now.. : )

The anonymous letter, that will end up in that giant black letterbox at Porschestraße, can wait for the final verdict. (Unless the 991GT cars make that redundant.)

sapman

Have you driven the c2? The numbers seem to indicate that it is plenty fast.

SSST

That's the real issue for me. I could easily afford a 991, even in turbo trim when it comes out. But if I wanted a fast, luxury GT, I'd get a SL650 or Jag XKR.

I was looking for modern super car performance and something I could still work on. Plus I've always wanted a 911 ever since I saw my first whale tail in the 70's. I don't have to do my own work, but I enjoy it. It's relaxing and a great stress reliever.

To me the 996 is the perfect balance. The 997 and now the 991 crossed the line for my wrench skills.

I think that is what most of the negative Nancy's are saying. The new car is technically superior and can make an average driver better than he actually is, but something special is gone and won't be back.

I think that's the real reason for the negative comments.

On the plus side, they did get rid of the bumperettes.

quibbs

On one hand I can really share in the disappointment of electric power steering. I was going to replace my 6 year old BMW coupe when the F30 3 series came out. After driving the new car, I decided they had ruined the series by switching to the EPS. There was a major difference between the two types of steering. I then test drove a 5 series, and again, the EPS was a deal breaker. The 5 series just wandered on center and felt a bit off.

I ended up placing a deposit on a 2012 M5 because of all the positive reviews, and the fact that it's still hydraulic assisted steering. I do believe in most cases the switch to EPS has mostly been a negative.

However...

I am getting ready to replace my 997.1 TT with a 991cs because of the refinement, PDK and comfort. I do not track my car and I want to drive a P-car as a DD for awhile. After test driving a 991cs I thought that Porsche did a decent job with the EPS. Would I prefer a hydraulic assist instead, yep. But to me, the EPS wasn't so bad that it killed the car, at least to me. For the Porsche purist, I am sure it is upsetting, but VW is aiming for volume, for better or worse. Most people will take the newer model over the older one. General comfort with some sport will generally outsell pure sport with nominal comfort. VW is on a mission. Porsche has been transitioning from boutique manufacturer to worldwide volume for years and now that pace is in full gear. Will it kill the brand overtime? Not sure. If enough people complain or the cars stop selling then the purist point will be made and the company will have to adjust. If sales are good then the current direction will be validated and continue on...

Broadcast in "imhovision".....

destaccado

"Keep in mind that electric steering and electric AC and things like "sail" mode (coasting downhill in neutral with engine at idle rpm) and auto-stop and 7th gear are all related to government mandated fuel efficiency and emissions measurements. The same is true for the bumper designs, door thickness, steering column, passenger cell, foot boxes, you name it."

Regardless of what reason caused it -- it's still relevant when discussing why many of us feel the 991 is a step back from the 997. This is a stretch but if all 2013 model cars were required by regulation to produce no more than 10bhp I would view that just as negatively when discussing a 2013 model as if Porsche made the decision to equip their vehicle with 10bhp themselves....


"As for the 991 itself, it bears no resemblance and zero in common with a Panamera two-door or whatever comes next (and soon.) The cabin is a shared design with all Porsches now."

You don't see how this statement contradicts itself at all? Is the government forcing Porsche to share cabin design as well?


Anyways, I'm nitpicking. I respect your opinion and completely agree with the vast majority of it. The simple truth is that Porsche is no longer the company it once was - I understand people have been saying that since the switch from the 993 to the 996 but it feels different this time. Perhaps the supposed Porsche "Ferrari-fighter" will bring back some of the magic that those of us who grew up dreaming about owning a 911 were hoping for when we came of age? ...perhaps not...