Agree 100%. Given the rate of technology change, why have as standard a system that in 10 years will look like the equivalent of a B&W tube TV sitting inside you car when you can have a portable system that can be employed when wanted, left at home when not wanted?

I also think there is something lost in constantly relying on nav to get us places. Who knows what delicious twisty road or unexpected destination you might find in the process of navigating using maps, and maybe even getting lost?

Sure it's nice when you have to be somewhere at a certain time using the most efficient route, but that's what a Garmin or other portable system is for...

 

Below is a quote from the 991 brochure about PTV. Note that PTV is implemented with a traditional mechanical LSD in the manual transmission cars, vs an electronic LSD in the PDK cars (aka "PTV Plus"). Also note that, in this desciption at least, it sounds like the drag-the-inside-rear-brake algorithm is mostly used at lower speeds, whereas at higher speeds the LSD is the only thing working. Of course, take all this marketing blah-blah with a grain of salt. Until owners have been tracking their 991's for a year or so, we won't really know whether the PTV programming is Good or Bad. It all depends on the implementation.

/begin quote from page 54-55/
PTV in conjunction with the manual gearbox,
or PTV Plus with Porsche Doppelkupplung
(PDK), are available as options
for the 911 Carrera and standard in the
911 Carrera S. Both systems actively
enhance vehicle dynamics and stability.
Operating in conjunction with a mechanical
(PTV) or electronic (PTV Plus) rear
differential lock, they work by braking the
rear wheels as the situation demands.
As a function of steering angle and steering
speed, accelerator pedal position, yaw
rate and vehicle speed, PTV and PTV Plus
are able to improve steering response
and steering precision by specific braking
of the right or left rear wheel.
To be more precise, this means that when
the car is driven assertively into a corner,
moderate brake pressure is applied to the
inside rear wheel. Consequently, a greater
amount of drive force is distributed to the
outside rear wheel, inducing an additional
rotational pulse (yaw movement) around
the vehicle’s vertical axis. This results in
a direct and sporty steering action as the
car enters the corner.
At low and medium vehicle speeds, PTV
and PTV Plus significantly increase agility
and steering precision. At high speeds
and when accelerating out of corners,
the rear differential lock ensures greater
driving stability. With PTV, the differential
lock is regulated mechanically; with
PTV Plus, it is regulated electronically and
the torque distribution is infinitely variable.
Whichever system is fitted, it interacts
with Porsche Stability Management (PSM)
to improve driving stability on a range of
surface conditions, including the wet and
snow.
/end quote/

 

I have PTV standard on my 997 Turbo S. I think it is too intrusive. I've tried it in normal, sport and sport plus modes. I've tried it on turns I know and am quite smooth through and it tries to correct my line in the middle of the turn. The car does not get unsettled, I get unsettled. I've tried different lines through the same turns but it still kicks in. I wish I can disable it. When I drive my GT3 or Carrera through same turns, it is much better. I would have to go with the base Carrera in the 991 for this reason.

 

Hey Riz- is your turbo S a manual or PDK?

Do you know if the distinction in the brochure is real or just marketing?

 

My turbo S is PDK, not available with stick.

 

The interesting thing is that I never ever get PSM to intervene(on the street) but PTV is constantly trying to correct my line.

 

It's obviously a different animal than your Turbo, but my '11 Cayenne S has PTV and it makes a noticeable (and very positive) difference in the way the car handles. Since the inside rear brake is applied as you first enter a turn, PTV is designed to "support" (Porsche's word) the steering input that you've already given the car, not correct it. I don't find that PTV is trying to correct my line, it just makes the car more responsive to initial turn-in. It really works on the Cayenne, but it would be interesting to try it in a smaller car for comparison.

FWIW, the Porsche web site has a video showing how PTV works, for those that might not be familiar with it. It's shown for the Cayenne but the principle is the same for the Carrera/Turbo.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...l/?gtabindex=2

 

pics of ducktail?

wish they had -30mm fixed non pasm as well!!!

 

Or you can stick with the stick and not take it out of gear and release clutch when you stop.....

"In the 911 equipped with manual transmission, the engine switches off automatically when you come to a stop, select neutral, and release the clutch pedal."

 

While it may be effective, the fact that it cannot be manually defeated by the driver means that we have yet another electronic layer between our driving inputs and the behavior of the car. There are certainly times when as a driver I want stability and traction control, but there are other times when I'd prefer to control the vehicle using my own actions with three pedals, manual gear changes, direct feelsome steering, and no electronic intervention including antilock brakes.

We will not really know until the new 911 is available to drive, but I am concerned that new and "improved" features like electronic steering, PTV/PSM/PDK/PASM/PDCC further isolate the driver from the road.

 

I don't disagree. On a 4500lb SUV, a little help on turn-in is definitely a good thing. Whether it's needed or desired on a 3100lb sports car is another matter and I'd also want to drive a 991 equipped with PTV before I pass judgement.

 

Having said the above, I like the concept of PDCC more than I do PTV, and think this could be one of the new standout features on the 991.

PDCC, a new option available on the 911 Carrera S, is an active anti-roll system that reduces lateral body movement during cornering. With this system, hydraulic stabilizing actuators located at each wheel actively optimize wheel camber, their action moderated based on steering angle and lateral acceleration.

The result is more stable lateral load transfer, sharper turn-in, and improved dynamic performance.

 

+1 FWIW, I also have PDCC on the Cayenne. It's amazing how flat an SUV can corner at speeds that approach sports car levels. Should be very impressive on the 991.

 

I'll add a few thoughts:

• 20" tires are going to mean expensive track days for those with an S.
• I like the high center consol, reminds me of the Carrera GT (can we option a balsa wood ****?), but not being able to paint the entire consol sucks, just painting the trim insert looks flaky, and reminds me of those faux wood kits you can buy at Pep Boys.
• Standard Nav is about time.
• Glad that sunroof is optional it's not attractive when open. I've said it before why not just make it glass?
• I'm guessing the leather options will come, as will the painted wheel options and the carbon bucket seats.
• Ducktail option - that's a pleasant surprise. I'd get that for sure, one less moving part and it looks great.

And one big unanswered question how will the car drive with electric steering? Hmmmmm.

 

I agree with most of your observations, but I simply do NOT see anything similar between 991 console and Carrera GT, yes it's a little higher, but look at how simplified the CGT is... they could have easily done something like that to make it look different than Panamera/Cayenne and sporty.

Not having the ability for painted center console SUCKS big time, I guess full leather and/or Alcantara console should and must be an option.