Here's why the 991 will be a great car
#17
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Here it is with a Turbo. One is with center points of the hubs lined up. In the other the overall lengths are the same. Black car is NOT exactly square to camera. Knock yourselves out, Enjoy
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#18
Nordschleife Master
#19
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Love the X-ray view!
#20
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Let us try to understand the issues. The WB (wheelbase) is the distance between the front and rear axles measured between wheel hub centers.
The 991 WB will be 4" longer than the 997 WB:
WB(991) = WB(997) + 4 (in inches).
This WB increase is fact, not conjecture.
Thus, relatively to the front wheels, the 991 rear wheels will be 4" behind. Its engine will therefore be 4" behind relatively to the current engine position (relatively to the front wheels).
The engine and transmission will be the same dimensionally and the engine will be further back - 4" back. The space gain occurs entirely in the cockpit behind the front seats.
Any photographic comparison will have to use the 4" WB differential as its basis of comparison (not the overall length). The car length seems to be slightly larger. Perhaps not quite 4" longer due to some overhang savings (more savings up front).
Now... with a longer wheelbase, PAG has now space to flip the positions of the transmission and the engine and make it mid-engine. The 991 wheelbase (96.4") is longer than the Cayman (mid-engine) (95.1"). This may happen on some homologated series for motorsports certification. If it happens, it will be PAG's way to bring a Cayman architecture (albeit with better suspension) in 911 clothes.
P.S. - re the photos above it is quite clear that the rear cabin increased, by noticing the forward repositioning of the apex of the side rear window now slightly forward of the rear wheel hub.
The 991 WB will be 4" longer than the 997 WB:
WB(991) = WB(997) + 4 (in inches).
This WB increase is fact, not conjecture.
Thus, relatively to the front wheels, the 991 rear wheels will be 4" behind. Its engine will therefore be 4" behind relatively to the current engine position (relatively to the front wheels).
The engine and transmission will be the same dimensionally and the engine will be further back - 4" back. The space gain occurs entirely in the cockpit behind the front seats.
Any photographic comparison will have to use the 4" WB differential as its basis of comparison (not the overall length). The car length seems to be slightly larger. Perhaps not quite 4" longer due to some overhang savings (more savings up front).
Now... with a longer wheelbase, PAG has now space to flip the positions of the transmission and the engine and make it mid-engine. The 991 wheelbase (96.4") is longer than the Cayman (mid-engine) (95.1"). This may happen on some homologated series for motorsports certification. If it happens, it will be PAG's way to bring a Cayman architecture (albeit with better suspension) in 911 clothes.
P.S. - re the photos above it is quite clear that the rear cabin increased, by noticing the forward repositioning of the apex of the side rear window now slightly forward of the rear wheel hub.
Regarding more rear seat room, with that sloping roof/rear window, no one will want to sit back there, unless they lack a head, but an engine could certainly fit right behind the back seats...
#21
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Granted this is all speculation at this point, but it seems to me that the car's overall center of gravity is moving closer to the mid point of the car's length. I believe right now the distribution is 60:40 so I suspect it will be something closer to 55:45 if I had to take a wild guess.
I can only assume that this will create a better handling car -- even if it robs the car's traditional rear weight distribution feel.
Anyway, just 2 cents worth...
-T
#22
Nordschleife Master
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I understand that relative to the front wheels it may be so but is that what is relevant or is it the location of the center of gravity compared to the location of the wheels and engine that is most important?
Granted this is all speculation at this point, but it seems to me that the car's overall center of gravity is moving closer to the mid point of the car's length. I believe right now the distribution is 60:40 so I suspect it will be something closer to 55:45 if I had to take a wild guess.
I can only assume that this will create a better handling car -- even if it robs the car's traditional rear weight distribution feel.
Anyway, just 2 cents worth...
-T
Granted this is all speculation at this point, but it seems to me that the car's overall center of gravity is moving closer to the mid point of the car's length. I believe right now the distribution is 60:40 so I suspect it will be something closer to 55:45 if I had to take a wild guess.
I can only assume that this will create a better handling car -- even if it robs the car's traditional rear weight distribution feel.
Anyway, just 2 cents worth...
-T
#23
Nordschleife Master
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Isn't it possible that while the while the wheelbase is extended 4" that the engine could be pushed FORWARD 4" making it more balanced in the chassis? It's possible that moving the tranny forward and keeping the engine where it is that a more balanced chassis will be gained, but it's all conjecture for the time being.
Regarding more rear seat room, with that sloping roof/rear window, no one will want to sit back there, unless they lack a head, but an engine could certainly fit right behind the back seats...
Regarding more rear seat room, with that sloping roof/rear window, no one will want to sit back there, unless they lack a head, but an engine could certainly fit right behind the back seats...
A year from now we'll all see. I bet most people will like it. Some of us less so.
Ref comparo - I like the Panamera. It is a very balanced car and drives great - I consider it the best driver's sports sedan. The Turbo is as fast as a Carrera, but I still prefer the Carrera.
#24
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Sorry to be negative but I don't want bigger & longer Porsches. I already miss the older 911's and their relatively small size.
Once I measured my M3 coupe's doors and my 997 doors out of curiosity and they were nearly identical. I couldn't believe it at first because the M3 coupe's doors are so damn long but the measurements don't lie. Almost identical. The 997 is already too big, IMO.
Once I measured my M3 coupe's doors and my 997 doors out of curiosity and they were nearly identical. I couldn't believe it at first because the M3 coupe's doors are so damn long but the measurements don't lie. Almost identical. The 997 is already too big, IMO.
#25
Rennlist Member
#26
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Look at the geometry... The engine/tranny mass is still in the save relative position to the rear axle. PAG is not going to separate apart the engine and tranny to move weight forward. The gain is all in front of the tranny and mktg will spin the back-seating space gain, which for some of us is a negative, but the masses think otherwise, I'm sure.
The whole WB increase is to take advantage of the ill-conceived EPA footprint reg. A side effect of that is to allow space to develop a '911' mid-engine for racing. This is what I think is going on.
The whole WB increase is to take advantage of the ill-conceived EPA footprint reg. A side effect of that is to allow space to develop a '911' mid-engine for racing. This is what I think is going on.
I am sure that offers a lot of other challenges, loss of power, and most likely NOT gonna happen!
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
For those wanting a smaller more sporty car, why not a Cayman S? Granted the power is on the lower side but when you think about it, it's still a ton of engine for such a small package and with the mid engine design you can't ask for better weight balance.
I think the enthusiasts will migrate to the Cayman and those wanting a true GT car will buy the 911.
I think the enthusiasts will migrate to the Cayman and those wanting a true GT car will buy the 911.
#29
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It looks like the 911 will get more and more expensive ( and bigger and heavier) while the Boxster and Cayman will take over the traditional business. Hmmm.... the 911 becomes the new 928?
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
928 Owners have been saying that since the introduction of the 996. With exception to the driving dynamics the similarities are definitely there.