Repeat PDCC failures in 991 on race track
01-26-2022, 08:34 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thank you both for your input!
I actually had and still have the same question you posted: Is there a problem with PASM besides or in addition to PDCC - not according to 3 different Porsche technicians who serviced the car.
To recap, I participated at a dozen HDPE events (4 different tracks) during the last couple years. I never had an issue at 2 Road America events; I experienced approximately 20 suspension faults at 7 of the other 10 events, all at one of the following 3 tracks: often at Autobahn South (never on North) and Blackhawk, and occasionally at Gingerman.
Each time after the car was interrogated at a Porsche shop, the technician attributed the suspension fault to a PDCC issue secondary to insufficient pressure built-up in the front. After each of the several repair attempts (PDCC front valve block, software update, PDCC hydraulic pump and fluid, both front actuators, and PDCC control unit), the Porsche technician could never replicate a suspension fault on the test bench or during sporty test driving on curvy street roads.
Given the above info, how likely is it that different technicians (one had particular expertise in suspension) would miss diagnosing an issue with PASM (connector, sensor, etc) or a bad shock? Any advise on next steps?
I actually had and still have the same question you posted: Is there a problem with PASM besides or in addition to PDCC - not according to 3 different Porsche technicians who serviced the car.
To recap, I participated at a dozen HDPE events (4 different tracks) during the last couple years. I never had an issue at 2 Road America events; I experienced approximately 20 suspension faults at 7 of the other 10 events, all at one of the following 3 tracks: often at Autobahn South (never on North) and Blackhawk, and occasionally at Gingerman.
Each time after the car was interrogated at a Porsche shop, the technician attributed the suspension fault to a PDCC issue secondary to insufficient pressure built-up in the front. After each of the several repair attempts (PDCC front valve block, software update, PDCC hydraulic pump and fluid, both front actuators, and PDCC control unit), the Porsche technician could never replicate a suspension fault on the test bench or during sporty test driving on curvy street roads.
Given the above info, how likely is it that different technicians (one had particular expertise in suspension) would miss diagnosing an issue with PASM (connector, sensor, etc) or a bad shock? Any advise on next steps?
01-26-2022, 08:57 PM
#17
The 3 tracks do not have high banking. What all 3, particularly 2 of the tracks, have in common are tight right-left turn combinations. Although I have experienced suspension faults at different sections on those tracks, a suspension alert was repeatedly triggered at the same righ-left-turn combination at Blackhawk - sadly too many times that I decided to leave the track event.
02-26-2022, 09:48 PM
#18
UPDATE from PCNA
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
Last edited by Nine-91; 02-26-2022 at 09:57 PM.
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poorshoeless (02-26-2022)
02-26-2022, 10:43 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
UPDATE from PCNA
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
Last edited by Joec500; 02-26-2022 at 10:46 PM.
02-28-2022, 02:39 PM
#20
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You could always remove the pddc from the car. It is something that we have done to quite a few cars. It is not a small job so keep that in mind. It is nice to also get rid of the hydraulic pump that is on the engine.
The sway bars are slightly different on the non-pddc set up but you may be able to custom do adjustable and links on the original sway bars.
It should say something that the GT cars do not come with the PDDC option as well.
I purchased a 992 Turbo instead of a turbo S just so I could option the car without PDDC
The sway bars are slightly different on the non-pddc set up but you may be able to custom do adjustable and links on the original sway bars.
It should say something that the GT cars do not come with the PDDC option as well.
I purchased a 992 Turbo instead of a turbo S just so I could option the car without PDDC
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- Akrapovic - BMC - TechArt - H&R - By Design - AMS - CSF - Kline - NGK - TiLugs - HRE - M Engineering - ID Injectors -
FULL SERVICE INSTALLATION FACILITY - STATE OF THE ART WIND TUNNEL DYNO - ECU TUNING
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1MORLAP (09-28-2023)
02-28-2022, 04:28 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
You could always remove the pddc from the car. It is something that we have done to quite a few cars. It is not a small job so keep that in mind. It is nice to also get rid of the hydraulic pump that is on the engine.
The sway bars are slightly different on the non-pddc set up but you may be able to custom do adjustable and links on the original sway bars.
It should say something that the GT cars do not come with the PDDC option as well.
I purchased a 992 Turbo instead of a turbo S just so I could option the car without PDDC
The sway bars are slightly different on the non-pddc set up but you may be able to custom do adjustable and links on the original sway bars.
It should say something that the GT cars do not come with the PDDC option as well.
I purchased a 992 Turbo instead of a turbo S just so I could option the car without PDDC
04-03-2022, 02:18 PM
#22
UPDATE from PCNA
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
After I reached out one more time to PCNA, the following technical details were shared with me: "Analysis of this vehicle has been reviewed and here is what was found: The PDCC SW is 1100 therefore this vehicle has the latest PDCC SW available. In addition this vehicle has the 991.359.075.03 valve block installed. So all of the latest ‘fixes’ have been applied to this vehicle. Based on internal feedback this is driving style while on a track. Primarily what was found is when taking a corner of the vehicle over the abrupt apex curbing, the sharp change of the PDCC bar translates to a sharp pressure change between the front & rear axle valve block of the PDCC. The result of this sharp change is PDCC pressure build up fault codes 001005 along with 001006 sometimes a PSM brake temp fault 005060 is also set."
For the record, suspension alerts in my car were often triggered in tight right-left turns without apex curbing. In addition, my PCA instructors independently experienced the same PDCC failures when driving my car. Finally, I have never triggered any suspension failures driving a 991 without PDCC.
Having that said, I can only conclude that my 991.1 with PDCC cannot handle a race track due to some unidentified technical issue / design flaw. It is upsetting that PCNA basically tries to blame the PDCC faults on my driving style. I have to say that I have finally lost confidence in Porsche as a brand that I always regarded to live up to higher standards.
In the beginning of March, I appealed PCNA’s assessment that the PDCC faults are caused by my driving style, specifically when taking a corner over the abrupt apex curbing. I argued that most suspension faults have been triggered at different left / right-turn sections without abrupt apex curbing. PCNA responded that Porsche has reviewed the issue multiple times and is standing behind its conclusion; the matter is considered settled and will not be revisited.
About a week later, I received a call from PCNA informing me that because of the unusual nature of my case an engineer is interested in further diagnosing the PDCC faults. My local dealer was authorized to replace both front actuators (dampers), PDCC hydraulic pump, PDCC front and rear valve block (except the rear valve block, all other components were already replaced in last 2 years). The PDCC components are now at PCNA for further diagnostic testing; data will be send to Porsche AG in Germany to isolate the cause of the issue. I want to remain hopeful…
04-06-2022, 03:37 AM
#24
Follow-up #1 from PCNA
In the beginning of March, I appealed PCNA’s assessment that the PDCC faults are caused by my driving style, specifically when taking a corner over the abrupt apex curbing. I argued that most suspension faults have been triggered at different left / right-turn sections without abrupt apex curbing. PCNA responded that Porsche has reviewed the issue multiple times and is standing behind its conclusion; the matter is considered settled and will not be revisited.
About a week later, I received a call from PCNA informing me that because of the unusual nature of my case an engineer is interested in further diagnosing the PDCC faults. My local dealer was authorized to replace both front actuators (dampers), PDCC hydraulic pump, PDCC front and rear valve block (except the rear valve block, all other components were already replaced in last 2 years). The PDCC components are now at PCNA for further diagnostic testing; data will be send to Porsche AG in Germany to isolate the cause of the issue. I want to remain hopeful…
In the beginning of March, I appealed PCNA’s assessment that the PDCC faults are caused by my driving style, specifically when taking a corner over the abrupt apex curbing. I argued that most suspension faults have been triggered at different left / right-turn sections without abrupt apex curbing. PCNA responded that Porsche has reviewed the issue multiple times and is standing behind its conclusion; the matter is considered settled and will not be revisited.
About a week later, I received a call from PCNA informing me that because of the unusual nature of my case an engineer is interested in further diagnosing the PDCC faults. My local dealer was authorized to replace both front actuators (dampers), PDCC hydraulic pump, PDCC front and rear valve block (except the rear valve block, all other components were already replaced in last 2 years). The PDCC components are now at PCNA for further diagnostic testing; data will be send to Porsche AG in Germany to isolate the cause of the issue. I want to remain hopeful…
04-06-2022, 08:48 PM
#25
Instructor
Excellent news!
06-22-2022, 08:30 AM
#26
06-24-2022, 01:42 PM
#27
Not sure if it’s the same, but I got a “PSM suspension fault” on my car after a couple of track sessions, when starting the engine to go out for another session. I turned the ignition off, restarted it, and the fault was not present, and did not reoccur - note that it occurred while the car was stationary, not while on track.
I haven’t seen it since then, but I’ve only done 2 sessions since that occurrence. We’ll see what happens at the next track day…
Car is a 2017 C2S with APR K04.3 GTS turbos + stage 3 tune, AP racing BBK + Ferodo DS2500 pads, DSC sport controller with custom map based on the GT2RS map.
I haven’t seen it since then, but I’ve only done 2 sessions since that occurrence. We’ll see what happens at the next track day…
Car is a 2017 C2S with APR K04.3 GTS turbos + stage 3 tune, AP racing BBK + Ferodo DS2500 pads, DSC sport controller with custom map based on the GT2RS map.
06-25-2022, 06:50 PM
#28
06-25-2022, 06:55 PM
#29
Not sure if it’s the same, but I got a “PSM suspension fault” on my car after a couple of track sessions, when starting the engine to go out for another session. I turned the ignition off, restarted it, and the fault was not present, and did not reoccur - note that it occurred while the car was stationary, not while on track.
I haven’t seen it since then, but I’ve only done 2 sessions since that occurrence. We’ll see what happens at the next track day…
Car is a 2017 C2S with APR K04.3 GTS turbos + stage 3 tune, AP racing BBK + Ferodo DS2500 pads, DSC sport controller with custom map based on the GT2RS map.
I haven’t seen it since then, but I’ve only done 2 sessions since that occurrence. We’ll see what happens at the next track day…
Car is a 2017 C2S with APR K04.3 GTS turbos + stage 3 tune, AP racing BBK + Ferodo DS2500 pads, DSC sport controller with custom map based on the GT2RS map.
06-25-2022, 11:46 PM
#30